Mackinaw
Think Different
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In the case of my Agfa 25, it get "lost" when we moved back in 1986. I stumbled across it a few years back in a box buried in the back of our freezer.
Jim B.
How expired is too expired?
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In the case of my Agfa 25, it get "lost" when we moved back in 1986. I stumbled across it a few years back in a box buried in the back of our freezer.
Jim B.
Brian Legge
Veteran
- Color will suffer more than black and white due to color shifts (somewhat correctable as long as each layer has enough dynamic range - which they eventually won't).
- Fast films loose speed much more quickly than slow films.
A lot depends on storage. Poorly stored film can lose speed before its expiration date. Well stored (and slower) film can last a long time.
This 31 year Kodachrome 64 which still had enough information to make useable scans, though it came out with a bit of a pink tint even with color correction:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/5280627789/
...but this 41 year old Kodachrome 25 didn't do as well (though I don't mind the look for this particular subject):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/5260385752
Here is some nearly 50 year old Plus X. I have to admit I was shocked at how well this did (though I shot it at ie 50 as I recall):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4565246506/
...and this 11 year old Konica Centuria 100 held up fairly well:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6451032541/
Basically, without testing a particular batch of film, there isn't really a good way to know. The closest to known bad would be old 800/16/3200 film that is significantly out of date. I'd be surprised if you could get a good image out of it - maybe something usable by rating it down to 100-400 but I've used 15 year expired 1600 color film which came out as noise.
I shot more expired film when I was getting back into film photography and was picking up cheap batches of film. Other than my big stack of Konica Centuria (I picked up ~150 rolls for something like a quarter a roll and have been happy with the results), I shoot primarily fresh film for predictability unless I'm either testing rolls or just messing around.
- Fast films loose speed much more quickly than slow films.
A lot depends on storage. Poorly stored film can lose speed before its expiration date. Well stored (and slower) film can last a long time.
This 31 year Kodachrome 64 which still had enough information to make useable scans, though it came out with a bit of a pink tint even with color correction:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/5280627789/
...but this 41 year old Kodachrome 25 didn't do as well (though I don't mind the look for this particular subject):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/5260385752
Here is some nearly 50 year old Plus X. I have to admit I was shocked at how well this did (though I shot it at ie 50 as I recall):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4565246506/
...and this 11 year old Konica Centuria 100 held up fairly well:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6451032541/
Basically, without testing a particular batch of film, there isn't really a good way to know. The closest to known bad would be old 800/16/3200 film that is significantly out of date. I'd be surprised if you could get a good image out of it - maybe something usable by rating it down to 100-400 but I've used 15 year expired 1600 color film which came out as noise.
I shot more expired film when I was getting back into film photography and was picking up cheap batches of film. Other than my big stack of Konica Centuria (I picked up ~150 rolls for something like a quarter a roll and have been happy with the results), I shoot primarily fresh film for predictability unless I'm either testing rolls or just messing around.
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
I routinely use Fuji Superia 400 with an expiry date of somewhere in 2005. I froze it when it was already 5 years pas expiry. I rate it at ISO100, 400 or even 200 gives dark, murky pictures. I also shot and developed a roll of Tri-X once that had been lying around in a drawer for years. It was 19 years beyond expiry. Results were beyond grainy but still usable. I also have some Agfa APX in 120 with an expiry date in 2003. The ISO100 film looks almost as new, the ISO400 needs a definite kick in the backside during development. But still, it works. See for yourself:
Rolls Royce, expired APX100 by Ronald_H, on Flickr
T1 - VW Fest by Ronald_H, on Flickr
And a bit too expired (Drugstore brand E6, expired 2003, shot in 2011)
Evelien, mirror by Ronald_H, on Flickr
Rolls Royce, expired APX100 by Ronald_H, on Flickr
T1 - VW Fest by Ronald_H, on Flickr
And a bit too expired (Drugstore brand E6, expired 2003, shot in 2011)
Evelien, mirror by Ronald_H, on Flickr
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
A nice rule of thumb that works for me:
E6: Max. 2 years past expiry. Expect more grain, maybe color shift.
C41 up to ISO 800: Max. 6 years past expiry. Overexpose by 1-1.5 stop per 3 years expiry. Can look excellent (in my experience it usually does) but YMWV.
B/W < ISO400: Even at 10 years past expiry nothing a bit of extra development will cure.
B/W ISO400 (APX, Tri-X, HP5+): 5 years past expiry still works for me.
Of course storage conditions will have impact as well, but I use expired film for most of my photography now. Buy a few batches at fairs, freeze the lot and experiment. My pile of Fuji Superia came to less than 30 cents per roll, and all of them were fine.
E6: Max. 2 years past expiry. Expect more grain, maybe color shift.
C41 up to ISO 800: Max. 6 years past expiry. Overexpose by 1-1.5 stop per 3 years expiry. Can look excellent (in my experience it usually does) but YMWV.
B/W < ISO400: Even at 10 years past expiry nothing a bit of extra development will cure.
B/W ISO400 (APX, Tri-X, HP5+): 5 years past expiry still works for me.
Of course storage conditions will have impact as well, but I use expired film for most of my photography now. Buy a few batches at fairs, freeze the lot and experiment. My pile of Fuji Superia came to less than 30 cents per roll, and all of them were fine.
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
Because it costs next to nothing and in many cases is perfectly usable.
NickTrop
Veteran
Depends on the speed of the film, color vs black and white, and how it's stored. Can't answer.
dct
perpetual amateur
Not only you (and I) were old. Already many years ago, the end of APS 240 format film started with the retirement of ISO 100, ISO 800 and b&w rolls. But there are still stock of them around and most of my "expired film" purchase had no quality issues. 2011 the production of 240 film stopped completly as well.
My obstinate usage of my APS SLR system is the main reason why I use expired film. But sometimes there are real bargains of just expired 135 or 120 film: If it matches my preferences, I would buy it without hesitation too.
tyrone.s
Well-known
Well it should cost next to nothing but I see some silly prices on eBay - almost as if expired itself were a desirable characteristic. it's film, not a violin, it doesn't actually get better with age.
However I have bought expired Kodak 400 color for cents a roll and am still shooting successfully with the last of it 5 years later, much too my surprise as it wasn't the greatest film to start with. Frozen all these years though.
bgb
Well-known
I prefer my film like my Veges FRESH 😀
JohnTF
Veteran
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This is a known problem, I had it with Agfapan 400, thought it was excessive X Ray from security (went through a lot that year) -- it was about the same time, - I contacted Agfa and posted on Compuserve Photo Forum, no one ever had a satisfactory explanation, Agfa included, but I had some rolls with decent images spoiled -- on some long trip as well.
Agfa replaced the film- thanks, how about the plane ticket , etc.
Cosmic rays pass through the earth, so the ones that hit film are not affected by varying density of the backing paper.
I purchased some military surplus paper, and it had been cold stored, and marked as to when samples had been tested and passed.
Any significant supply, IMO, should be tested by processing unexposed film samples. Simple enough.
There are anti fog agents for B&W as well, some used them to up contrast a bit. Bromides and such.
You are asking a question with a lot of variables, I had a batch of paper custom coated and cut for me, and it seemed to not have a long shelf life, but I have known the airlines to say they are opening paper in a darkroom and just take it in another room and ruin it, to give it back with a smile.
I was told paper has about the same density and x ray look as Semtex, when they tore up my luggage because I had a square book, every one knows from the movies Semtex is square.
Regards, John
raid
Dad Photographer
Today I loaded my camera with 220 film with expiration year 2003.
I will let you know what "develops". I rated the NPS ISO 160 fim at ISO 100.
I will let you know what "develops". I rated the NPS ISO 160 fim at ISO 100.
Richard G
Veteran
Thanks for this thread. I recently shot some good store-bought Rollei Retro 25 expired 1/2010 and was very happy with the result. I have another roll, and will now buy quite a bit more, encouraged by this thread. It's more that it is there and available than that it is cheap, but cheap is nice. I have only ever used expired Rollei Retro 100, usually around 12 months expired, and I have been very happy with that too.
Muller
Established
I ran some ORWO ISO125 a few years ago that expired in the mid-90's. Wasn't sure what to expect, but the results just added to the photos; a few people asked what I did in Photoshop to make the images look "old", and another asked if I'd seen the "ghosts" I captured on film. 😀
Pablito
coco frío
TMZ and the old polaroid sheet films are two that are pretty useless after expiration no matter how they were stored.
I would never use expired film if I could help it. Not worth the "savings" even if risk is small.
I would never use expired film if I could help it. Not worth the "savings" even if risk is small.
newtorf
Established
My first bulk loader came with expired Plus-X. I do not know exactly how many years have passed its expiration date. There's some heavy base fog and grain. But it still works.
My second bulk loader came with expired TMAX 400. I do not know exactly how many years have passed its expiration date. However it is at minimal 8 years. It still works despite of base fog and grain.
Now I only shoot non-expired films.
My second bulk loader came with expired TMAX 400. I do not know exactly how many years have passed its expiration date. However it is at minimal 8 years. It still works despite of base fog and grain.
Now I only shoot non-expired films.
wafflecakee
Well-known
konica 3200 color film. Expired in 89 the year I was born.
Jamie123
Veteran
I don't know but I got a box of Kodak Gold 100T (Tungsten) 4x5 sheets that expired in the mid 90s. I wanna use it one of these days.
Also, I still have a roll of 10 year old Polaroid Polapan 35mm. It's a black and white 35mm instant slide film, i.e. you shoot it and then put it through a Polaroid Autoprocessor. It's the last of 3 rolls I had and the two previous ones came out fine. The chemicals in the developer pack also seem to be fine, only thing that's affected by age is the black base of the film which has to be peeled off under warm water. I believe it's supposed to come off during the developing process.
Also, I still have a roll of 10 year old Polaroid Polapan 35mm. It's a black and white 35mm instant slide film, i.e. you shoot it and then put it through a Polaroid Autoprocessor. It's the last of 3 rolls I had and the two previous ones came out fine. The chemicals in the developer pack also seem to be fine, only thing that's affected by age is the black base of the film which has to be peeled off under warm water. I believe it's supposed to come off during the developing process.
santino
FSU gear head
I've just checked my Negatives, there are some shots on Hp5 (not +) from 1989, no problems at all! The Agfa Ortho 25 is the only expired b&w film I've ever experienced problems with.
Noll
Well-known
I shot 3 rolls of Kodachrome 64 late in 2010 that expired in 1989, and were kept cold (maybe frozen?) and shrinkwrapped the entire time. The slides came out perfect. No color shift, no exposure issues, just beautiful. From what I can tell on this thread, Kodachrome seems to be the old-age champ. As with all things, YMMV.
Hjortsberg
Well-known
funny you should ask. I just shot some Tmax 100 that was six years old. Looked ok to me
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