How important is temperature in developing B&W film?

[Argenticien]

Don't you have a thermometer? Why guess or assume? Measure.

Wayne

I don't do cold-water baths for the bottles of chemistry. I'll admit this is partly laziness, but also lack of a proper container to do it in. I add ice as needed to the mixing water to get it down to 20 C, as my only temperature control mechanism. Once I've mixed the developer concentrate with the 20 C water, I of course can't add ice to the working solution, as it would then be too dilute. Therefore I don't measure the working solution's temperature, since there's nothing I can do about it. I figure the dilutive effect of adding more ice at that point would be material, where as the effects of leaving the working solution at 20.2 C or similar (while still using the 20 C developing time) has so far seemed to be immaterial.

--Dave

 

[jpa66]

I didn't vote, as I'm not sure exactly how I feel.

What's funny is that way back in the day when I first learned how to develop film, I NEVER took the temperature of the developer ( or any of the other chemicals ). I had worked at swimming pool for several years and took the temperature of the water there each day, so I figured that I knew from feel what 68 degrees F was ( LOL ). Thus, I just went by feel. All I shot in those days ( mid '80's ) was Tri-X. The funny thing is - nearly everything came out well.

Now I pay much closer attention to temperature, and try to be as precise as I can.

But every once in awhile, I get the itch to just let it fly again...

 

[muser53]

Here is my simple answer to a straight forward question. Temp matters. The better you can control all the variables involved from exposure to print the better you can consistently achieve what you intended to when you trip the shutter.

BTW Vinyl rules, even more so when combined with some tubes!

 

[DNG]

I try to get the developer at 20c, or from 18c to 23c, and adjust the time accordingly...

being off 2 degrees will change the time. (10% or so) And, to help trouble shoot, if needed, having a solid workflow is important.

 

[Chris101]

Am pretty sure Algebra 1 will suffice for most of it, or rely on Ilford and Kodak's charts and a well calibrated thermometer. ;-)

John

I've never actually used algebra to develop film. The results would probably be ... (wait for it) ... variable.

 

[crawdiddy]

I try to achieve 20 C, but I'll always try to err on the warm side, given a choice. I don't like thin negatives. Of course, with Tri-X, HP-5, Arista, Neopan and D-76, there's a fair amount of lattitude.

 

[JohnTF]

I've never actually used algebra to develop film. The results would probably be ... (wait for it) ... variable.

Algebra is (wait for it) what the Little Mermaid had to wear for the Disney movies.

 

[V-12]

How would the people who said 'a few degrees either way' teach somebody to drive?

"Son, keep both hands on the wheel at all times"

"Aw gee dad, all the time?"

"OK son, well only if you aren't picking your nose, hanging your arm over the back of your girlfriends seat, hanging your other arm out the window on a hot summer night, tuning the radio, drinking beer, or showing your friends how to drive with your knees and no hands on the wheel."

"Thanks dad"

I think 'a few degree's either way' should be kept to yourself, so you can deal with it, and not pass that advice on to beginners to deal with because 'they read it here first'.

Shame on you.

 

[venchka]

When mixing concentrated developer and water, it is very possible to use a frozen solid to lower the temperature of the working solution without over diluting the working solution. I leave it to your imaginations to solve the problem. There is a second method that doesn't involve frozen solids. It is slower, and more precise.
Suffice to say the temp. of developer and time in the developer are but two of several variables that define the final print.
I choose to use the temp. that I can easily maitain and duplicate combined with an amount of time that yields sastisfactory results within the confines of the other variables.
Clear as mud,hey!

Wayne
Ps: Agreed. Vinyl+Tubes = ROCKS

 

[dbm]

When mixing concentrated developer and water, it is very possible to use a frozen solid to lower the temperature of the working solution without over diluting the working solution. I leave it to your imaginations to solve the problem. There is a second method that doesn't involve frozen solids. It is slower, and more precise.
Suffice to say the temp. of developer and time in the developer are but two of several variables that define the final print.
I choose to use the temp. that I can easily maitain and duplicate combined with an amount of time that yields sastisfactory results within the confines of the other variables.
Clear as mud,hey!

Wayne
Ps: Agreed. Vinyl+Tubes = ROCKS

Or make ice cubes from properly mixed solutions? Since the "ice" has the same concentration as the solution, it wouldn't affect the concentration of the warm solution when added.

Obviously, never use that tray for regular ice again! 😱

 

[BardParker]

+1 on the Massive Development Chart App for iPhone/android/Nokia. It has a temperature convertor built in to the timer and automatically adjusts time. Makes everything super easy and consistent. That way I don't have to mess with ice, etc. Works great for me!

If you don't have mobile device that is compatible just use this online link:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

Kent

 

[DNG]

I do use ice (small prices) to cool down the Developer during the Summer. But, I like the idea of making a working dilution tray of developer ice cubes!.. Brilliant!

 

[znapper]

I always keep the developer within +-0.2 degrees of 20 C.
Wash and fix, I keep within +-2 degrees to avoid reticulation issues.

Consistency - consistency - consistency- consistency!!!

 

[pdh]

I always keep the developer within +-0.2 degrees of 20 C.!

Wow that's a very tight tolerance, I'm interested to know how you go about achieving that.

So, let's say for example you were developing 35mm film in a Paterson tank, and it needed 7 minutes at 20C with an inversion every 30s

What kind of thermometer are you using that is accurate and easy to read to such a scale?

How would you both monitor the developer temperature to such a tolerance, and maintain it (increasing or decreasing it as required) at the same time as not disturbing the tank in such a way as to mess up the agitation regime?

 

[znapper]

Wow that's a very tight tolerance, I'm interested to know how you go about achieving that.

So, let's say for example you were developing 35mm film in a Paterson tank, and it needed 7 minutes at 20C with an inversion every 30s

What kind of thermometer are you using that is accurate and easy to read to such a scale?

How would you both monitor the developer temperature to such a tolerance, and maintain it (increasing or decreasing it as required) at the same time as not disturbing the tank in such a way as to mess up the agitation regime?

I use a (very cheap) digital thermometer and measure up around 1 gallon of water in a holding tank, fitted with a purifying filter.
I keep nudging the water tap until I have 20 degrees (+-0.2 degrees) before I put that into a 1 liter jug, I have the thermometer in the jug while I fill it, in case temperature flux occur (people may start the shower or the dishwasher may start etc).

I know that the temperature probably varies a little bit during development, but it's not much during a 5-9 minute development.

My room temperature is usually very close to 20 degrees as well, so I don't get that extreme influence you may get in a hot climate.

The thing here is consistency, not necessarily 20 degrees exact.
You can develop at 30 degrees if you like, as long as you measure stuff and keep things as equal as possible every time.

If you measure temperature "by finger" and vary your agitation scheme wildly, you will never know what you did right/wrong and you will never be able to get reproducible results.

 

[venchka]

Earlier this week Houston tap water was measured with a laboratory grade mercury thermometer at 84° F. From the cold water tap. My A/C thermostat was set to 78° F. A dish pan full of water and enough liquids for a run of film in my Jobo tanks in my sink eventually settled at 76° F and stayed there for several hours. Temperature control by Mother Nature with a little help from modern technology.
Don't make too much out of nothing.

Wayne

 

[Chinasaur]

I just did two rolls. I felt the water, evaluated .."meh..feels right..". Proceeded to develop.

I don't use a thermometer anymore.

If the faces melted, or something else "bad" happened, ... I'll report back.

Otherwise, approximation is good enough™.

 

[x-ray]

The water gets pretty warm here in HK so I use ice to lower the developer to 68F. usually the development time is under 10 minutes so the risk of the temp rising in the tank is minimal. If you use a warmer temperature then you need to compensate with shorter development time. There is a chart you can find online but I find that to be a crude estimate. I tend to stick to 68F for consistency.

This is exactly rght. The temp you use, within limits, isn't so important if you compensate by altering your development times. Higher temps require shorter times. Most developers are designed to perform their best between 65 and 75f. Just check the charts for the correct time at that temp.

I test and determine the correct time, dilutions and temp to get the negs that work best for me. I'm also careful not to use rinse water and fixer at temperatures more than +/- 2f. I've found in some cases I've had more grain with large differences in temperatures between solutions. In the old days, 1960's and earlier, reticulation could happen with a wide spread in temps. It's not so much of an issue with modern films.

I normally try to keep my temp as close to my desired temp as possible. +/-1 degree F is the max but I strive to stay within .5 f. Realistically B&W film is as critical as color if you want consistency. As you gain experience you'll start to see the difference in exact control and guessing.

To the above person that guesses at the temp, remind me to never let you run my film.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Ice?

Ice?

I live in a place with thermostatically controlled heating and cooling; I assume most here also do.
I always develop at ambient temperature - which isn't always 20°C - and adjust time accordingly.

I've always assumed others did the same for BW negative film development; now I'm not so sure.
I am frankly surprised to see so many here jump through hoops to artificially change temperature.

Chris

 

[Merkin]

All of this is why I loved diafine. In the summer, I just used whatever came out of the cold tap. In the winter, I put on a touch of warm water until it felt vaguely close to room temp. Never had a problem.