How long do we think digital Leica M cameras will last?

PatrickT

PatrickT

New Rangefinder User
Local time
4:12 AM
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
804
Location
SF, CA
View My Gallery
How long do we think digital Leica M cameras will last? What about getting them repaired by Leica? What can we expect?

I know no one really knows the answer to this, given that digital M cameras haven't been around nearly as long as film ones. Given that these digital cameras are far more complex with electronics, what is everyone thinking?

The reason I ask is that I'm considering taking some additional income I received and buying a newer digital M, possibly an M10-R black paint, or an M11 (leaning M10-R if I do it at all). If I spend that amount of money on a camera, I am hoping I can keep it and use it for a VERY long time. I don't expect that it will outlive me (I'm 40), but I would love to be theoretically able to use it for the next 20 or more years.

My M9 is still going strong (after Kolari replaced the cover glass) so that gives me hope. Does Leica still repair other aspects of the M9? If they do, that also gives me hope.

Anyway, just wondering what people think. Cheers!
 
Last edited:
Well I sent my Leica T to Leica Australia for a new internal battery to preserve settings when switched off and the response was a "hard no" to any work on that series of camera. They offered me such a good trade in on a new CL that I could not refuse, but I was quite astonished that they would not do such a simple repair. This was only a few months ago.
So you' ll depend on 3rd party repairers, most of whom won't touch digital Leicas.
I love my M240 but I'm under no illusions that it will become a paperweight at some point.
 
What makes any camera unrepairable is the lack of a source of essential components. If the problem is a bad sensor, or a bad controller board, and those components are no longer available, that camera is no longer repairable.

Digital cameras, in my experience, are extremely reliable. What usually messes up, when something does, is peripheral bits like four-way controller switches or the battery or card carrier contacts. All of those things are eminently fixable given new or used parts availability. Critical components ... like sensors in particular ... are usually out of production by the time the camera itself is out of production, and few manufacturers stock huge numbers of sensors for the future since they fail so infrequently AND by the time they do most customers want a newer model anyway. Most digital cameras die of abuse (allowed to get wet and put away without being properly dried off, battery leakage and resulting internal corrosion ... things like that) rather than becoming worn out through use.

A camera built to similar quality spec as a Leica M is my now ancient Olympus E-1. It was new in 2003, I bought it in 2006 or 2007, and to this day it is absolution 100% perfect. When Olympus announced that they were closing down the E-1 service line in 2014 or so, they invited owners to send their E-1 in for a complete service and overhaul. I sent mine in, and the write up in 2014 (11 years old then) was that it had no known issues coming in on inspection, so they did a CLA, replaced the slightly loose body covering, and send it back for all of $125 or so. It hasn't changed a bit since.

So how long will a Leica M last? As the Head Bartender asserts, probably as long as you can buy a battery for it as long as you keep it in good condition. How long will Leica continue to service it? Probably a long time presuming you mean incidental repairs on parts that are plentiful (buttons, switches, etc) and probably a shorter time if the issue is sensor or other deep parts that age out more quickly.

An aside ... Wondering about whether you'll outlive your camera (or whether it will outlive you) at age 40 seems just a little amusing to those like me who have turned past the 70 mark and are now worrying about whether I'll live long enough to get the value I'd like to get out of my M10-R and M10-M through use! 😉 I've given up wondering about that stuff, and just use the darn things now. LOL!

G
 
I want my Leica to outlast me. Which it shows many signs of intending to do.

It's an LTM, a iif or iig (the jury is still out on the letter part.) I bought it at mate's rates from a deceased estate, but I then spent more on having it restored than I had paid for it. Ditto the lenses and other accessories I later bought.

in Australia we are truly fortunate to have a few highly qualified camera repair people who know and can work on Leicas. But they all say the same thing, it's the spare parts that will do those cameras in, not the so much the people who can repair them, although many of the latter are now retiring, and the field is fast emptying.

My SO occasionally jokes that if as I plan to, I'll be buried with all my beloved cameras with me, there won't be any room in the box even for my old bones.
 
Last edited:
qqphotos said:
The lack of 3rd party batteries for digital Leicas means you can't really count on them being usable for the long term at all, and it's really unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Well there have been 3rd party batteries for M8/9 since forever, don't know how good they are though. Recently 3rd party batteries have become available for the SL, Q2, Q3 series which is nice to see.
Of course my Q and CL use batteries that are also made by Sigma, Panasonic and assorted 3rd parties.
My M240 however will become a brick if Leica ever stop getting Varta to make batteries for it.
I think it’s the digital M's that are a worry on the battery department.
 
qqphotos said:
The lack of 3rd party batteries for digital Leicas means you can't really count on them being usable for the long term at all, and it's really unfortunate.
Click to expand...

The M11 can be charged from USB-C. This means that even if batteries become impossible to find you can power it externally from a power bank as you go. Inelegant, but entirely functional. For the earlier cameras, the batteries can be repacked. I have just had some BP-SCL5 batteries for the M10 done and am testing them.
 
In the end, they're just batteries. I trust that if Leica ever actually discontinued the BP-SCL5 batteries, there is enough money in the Leica audience to fund someone making a useable replacement.

That said, Leica has provided the one or two additional BP-SCL5 batteries I needed. They're in production, just very low volume at present. This will most likely change.

G
 
Leica M6/M6 TTL, no more circuit board spare parts available. For the M6 there was this limited run of a reverse engineered circuit board made by an innovative team providing a couple of those to some technicians. At least these camera still work meter-less in case the circuit board dies. Given the huge investment costs for a digital Leica, I rather stick with my Nikon Zf for digital and Leica film bodies that don't have any electronic parts.
 
Freakscene said:
The M11 can be charged from USB-C. This means that even if batteries become impossible to find you can power it externally from a power bank as you go. Inelegant, but entirely functional. For the earlier cameras, the batteries can be repacked. I have just had some BP-SCL5 batteries for the M10 done and am testing them.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm afraid repacking batteries is already a cottage industry and will only become more common.
Norm Day at TheBatteryDoctor (south Coast, nsw, oz) has recently rebuilt my 6006 battery and reckons this is becoming a bit of a thing.
Just as well, as I'm burning a lot of film through my 6006 and 6008 outfit and they are bricks without a decent battery.
Can I ask who rebuilt your BP-SCL5 batteries, I always wondered how to open them up...
 
Batteries and sensors are all cameras weaknesses.

We thought that the earlier sensors (aka film) were going to go away but they seem to have stabilized at a low but profitable level. So long as Ilford and Kodak avoid bankruptcy, analog cameras will keep going.

Similarly will be battery builders it seems to me. If the business is there, if the money is there, then the cameras will continue to be usable.
 
wlewisiii said:
Batteries and sensors are all cameras weaknesses.

We thought that the earlier sensors (aka film) were going to go away but they seem to have stabilized at a low but profitable level. So long as Ilford and Kodak avoid bankruptcy, analog cameras will keep going.

Similarly will be battery builders it seems to me. If the business is there, if the money is there, then the cameras will continue to be usable.
Click to expand...


This is all so damned iffy. Had the folks at Leica settled on a standard battery this would not be a problem. As in other applications there is one manufacturer who has established standard batteries. Leica, like Apple, is pretty much a "closed architecture" a "my way or the highway" gang. As much as I like what Leica does I am just going to shoot Sony a lot more. Pixii also uses a standard (Sony type) battery. Come on, Leica, this is not rocket surgery. If I were cynical I would think that the battery strangeness at Leica was deliberate.
 
Gone are the days of when a third party Panasonic battery would power a Leica Q! It's one of the reasons why I've stayed away from the newer Q models so far - not that I can talk, because I recently bought a SL2S and a spare battery, with few options for inexpensive third party batteries.

My M9 is still chugging after 15 years, but I think that Leica will no longer replace the sensor, LCD screen or some other parts. I have two spare original batteries which get cycled on each battery change, and they still hold charge. I'll continue to shoot with it for as long as it lasts.
 
I think that often with Leica it's less IBMesque Connector Conspiracy and more they get wrapped up in being German Engineers making "Teh Bestest" camera and the battery is a late consideration at best. The sort of thing that killed Zeiss once upon a time...
 
The biggest question mark in my mind is that of how long will vital accessories like batteries be available. Without these, a Leica M is nothing but a paperweight. I recently sold my Leica M 8 partly because their batteries are becoming harder to get (and less reliable on the after-market). And there are reports that batteries for the later M240 are presently exceedingly hard to find. Glad I avoided buying one. Even later still, I own a Leica SL type 601 which I bought, partly with the proceeds of my M8 only to find that an after-market battery for these is about $200. AUD. So, do not figure on them lasting forever - even after allowing for the fact that electronic cameras are inherently less reliable long term than old mechanical cameras.
 
I’ve said this here before too, a lot, so sorry if this sounds like a scratched record, but: when cameras became digital, part of the imaging chain that used to be single use (the recording medium) went from single use to being integral with the camera when cameras shifted from using film to having a digital sensor. They are not the same as they used to be. The camera is now partly single use/disposable. So get one and then go use it up. If you shoot 100,000 frames in a digital M - 10,000 frames a year is only the equivalent of about 5 rolls of film a week - you are way ahead of where you would be using a film camera, particularly if you develop film yourself and you value your time at all. Use it for 10 years, regard it as ‘used up’ and get another one. You could never go re-use your developed film.

In Rajasthan in 2023 I shot 3,000 frames in 3.5 days. Find things that work for you and go crazy. That’s what these machines are for. If you take <2,500 frames a year, buy an MP or MA and use it until film is no longer available.
 
Last edited:
My M8.2 and M9 take the same batteries and I have 12 - 15 and they all work. I have two for the M240 and they are hulking big batteries. The Q3 takes a third party Q2 battery which is a little less power than the Leica Q3. OTOH I can get two third-party and charger for less than the price of a Leica Q3. Do the math. Third party Sony batteries are all over the place/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom