Leica Digital M (11-D) Bugs

[rinzai]

Has anyone else experienced frustration with the Leica M11-D (and likely all digital M variants) regarding the auto shutter and auto ISO features?
Here;s the issue: set ISO and Shutter both to AUTO. set the max exposure time to 1/250 (or similar). set the max ISO to 50000 (or similar). now, take a few shots in low light. rather than raise the ISO to compensate for exposure, this brain dead camera lowers the shutter to 1/2 or 1/3 and selects an ISO of 250. This is ridiculous. so, rather than getting an in-focus shot with perhaps a tiny bit of noise, you end up with zero noise and nothing in focus. the bottom line is that the camera simply ignores the max shutter time setting if both auto-iso and auto-shutter are enabled. i've raised this question with the folks at Red Dot Forum and they responded that this was 'by design'. Frankly that's fan-boy bs. there is no practical reason for this apart from oversight. yes, i know how to 'solve' the problem; don't use auto-shutter. manually manage the shutter when using auto-iso. but this is a lazy cop out on the part of leica. surely they can do better. surely they know better? well, at least so i thought... what an enormous disappointment. I love my MA, but the more time I spend with the M11 the more i lean toward trading my Leica digital for an A7CR.

 

[Godfrey]

Leica M digital cameras do NOT have a "Program" mode, which would be required to do what you are expecting automatically. Setting AutoISO and Auto shutter time simultaneously does not create a Program mode. Contrary to your assertion of how "brain dead" Leica is, your camera is capable of near Program mode behavior using the ISO Setup submenu in the camera, and is much more flexible than any Program mode I've used in the past.

The ISO Setup submenu has three options which you need to review and set to produce the behavior you want. Using as example my M10-R ...

- M-ISO is a shortcut to achieve an unusual (typically high) ISO setting quickly for specific circumstances. I have mine set to ISO 10000.

- Maximum ISO sets the ISO limit that you are willing to tolerate for more average circumstances (the camera will set from base ISO to that maximum limit depending on light coming in through the lens at the aperture you've set). I usually have this set to ISO 3200 as the noise characteristic at this ISO is very clean.

- Maximum Exposure Time sets the shutter time limit based upon focal length calculation or a hard shutter time floor beyond which the ISO is raised to suit the scene.

Understanding how these three settings interact and how to set them for your use should net you the behavior you want. The key is you have to use your brain, not just blame the camera and its creators of being "brain dead". These are not cameras for people unwilling to use their brain... Experiment with the settings and you should be able to come up with a combination that handles most of what you want automatically, and the M-ISO setting gives a quick and convenient way to extend the automation to another range. (When what I'm trying to shoot pops past the capabilities of the automation on the long exposure end of the scale, I flip over to the M setting on the ISO dial and let the camera operate in pure aperture priority @ ISO 10000, with the shutter time cap in place as expected. )

Good luck with your M11-D.

G

 

[rinzai]

I appreciate you taking the time to respond with such detail. I will consider what you've said and adjust my use accordingly. However, i still think the fact that auto ISO and auto shutter combined , with a max shutter time of 1/250 should NEVER result in the camera choosing a 1/3 sec shutter (totally disregarding the max shutter settings) at 250 iso (when the max was set hi and plenty of 'bandwidth' (gain) was available. there's no world where that makes sense. and there's not much anyone can say that is likely to change my perception that this was at best a really poor choice on Leica's part.

 

[Godfrey]

You're welcome. I try.

Well, I'm totally unfamiliar with specifics of the M11 behavior, and the M11 model history has been rife with bugs and issues, so it might well just be a bug in that model's control code. The M11 model departs in many major ways from all prior digital Ms with respect to its hardware, behaviors, and programming, so it would not surprise me that there are yet more bugs in ISO Setup operation.

Try a total reset to factory settings and then try making changes to suit your use again. This has usually worked for me with other cameras (including my Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c) when they seemed to be misbehaving and not doing what I thought the settings were meant to do...

The M10 family models seem more stable, the result of incremental improvements and firmware updates over a long time. But I usually don't move into more extreme exposure territory even with them without watching precisely what the camera is doing and taking control when it doesn't seem to be doing what I expect. I remain skeptical about all these automation conveniences ...

G

 

[shawn]

However, i still think the fact that auto ISO and auto shutter combined , with a max shutter time of 1/250 should NEVER result in the camera choosing a 1/3 sec shutter (totally disregarding the max shutter settings) at 250 iso (when the max was set hi and plenty of 'bandwidth' (gain) was available. there's no world where that makes sense. and there's not much anyone can say that is likely to change my perception that this was at best a really poor choice on Leica's part.

Yes, agreed. No need for a program mode, you are describing aperture priority with auto ISO and a selectable minimum shutter speed. Many, many, many, cameras function this way and work properly. Including previous Leicas. This works correctly on my M240 and X-Vario.

About the only case manufactures differ on how to implement this is when you hit max ISO in low light (or stopped way down). Some will then allow the shutter to go below the minimum setting to try and get a correct exposure, some will keep the shutter at the minimum speed and underexpose.

 

[Freakscene]

My M10 Monochrom, M10-R and the M11 Monochrom I had for a while did not do this. Either there is a problem with the camera or there are conflicting input settings.

 

[Photon42]

On the M10, you can set max exposure time to e.g. 1/2f. That is then the lower limit, giving you a reasonably fast shutter speed and a flexible ISO auto setting. Are you sure that cannot be set similarly on the M11?