How long does film have?

[rlightfoot]

I'm new to this forum, so I hope a poll like this hasn't been posted before... although I guess everyone talks about this. Please don't flame me if I've added a double poll, I did have a look before I posted.

The thing is, I'm only just seriously discovering photography, and I really love the analog processes and results (not to mention the beautiful gear), so I want to be able to use film for a long time.

Will I be able to, or will digital crush the analog format entirely?

Have Leica added a nail to the coffin with the M8?

I know a few film companies have folded already, will that continue?

etc.

 

[navilluspm]

Depends what kind of film. I found some unexposed Seattle Film Works film in an old box. That film is dead!

Seriously though, what kind of film or format? I don't think film in every format will die. Digital has a long way to go before it surpasses Large format photography.

If film goes, I think color will die before BW film, and I don't think BW film will die anytime soon.

For the typical consumer, I can see 35mm film dying within a decade. For the artist and enthusiast, film will last a long time. We might not be able to get it at a local store, but we will be able to get it over the internet.

 

[rlightfoot]

Well, I'm mainly thinking of 35mm b&w, as it's rangefinder/slr and street photography I'm most interested in.

I agree that colour will probably die first and that it'll die out in the consumer market way before the art market... but the idea that more and more film companies are cutting back on their film production, like Agfa a few years ago and now Polaroid ending production of their Time-Zero film does worry me.


As long as Ilford keep making 35mm and 120 b&w film for the next 50 or so years, I'll be happy.

 

[wgerrard]

I think it 's anyone's guess how long film will be around. New films are still being rolled out. People who make movies have not yet gone completely digital. But, a key part of its future will be, I think, the ease, or lack thereof, with which film manufacturers can downsize their production facilities in order to remain profitable.

I've seem some folks predict that smaller niche producers will step in to meet demand for a niche product, perhaps buying production facilities from the big but defunct film companies. I don't have any way of knowing if that's a realistic possibility. Can you operate a niche-sized film plant and still make money?

Another important question to ask: How much would you pay for film?

 

[jbf]

I think we will see traditional motion picture film to be created for years and years. It will always be a staple of true filmmaking.

If there is still movie film, there will be 35mm still film in my mind. You can always adapt movie reel film (35mm) into still cameras.

Thats how 35mm still cameras came to be anyway.

 

[FrankS]

I think we will see traditional motion picture film to be created for years and years. It will always be a staple of true filmmaking.

If there is still movie film, there will be 35mm still film in my mind. You can always adapt movie reel film (35mm) into still cameras.

Thats how 35mm still cameras came to be anyway.

As long as there is movie film, there will be film in all formats. From what I've read, film is produced in wide rolls, and then cut to different widths for the different formats.

 

[Mackinaw]

I suggest you consider joining APUG (Analog Photo Users Group) if you're really interested in film. A ton of folks on there, all dedicated to using film. See:

http://www.apug.org/forums/home.php

As for how long film will be around, that's anybody's guess. As long as folks buy enough of the stuff to make it profitable to produce, somebody will make it.

There are problems though, most of today's major film companies (Kodak, Ilford, Fuji) are currently producing film in large, modern factories that are only profitable at largish production volumes. If demand falls below this, one of these companies may pull the plug on film.

My own guess (and that's all it is, a guess) is that 35mm B&W will be around at least another ten years and maybe even as much as 25 years. I suspect that 120 will be around somewhat less than this.

Jim B.

 

[sam_m]

Everyone thought vinyl would die with the introduction of tapes and CDs, ironically, vinyl as a niche product may just out live CDs with the way electronic downloads are going...

 

[amateriat]

I think that, in the near-term, the remaining film manufacturers will be scaling back more or less to where they were prior to, say, 1985, before auto-everything p/s cameras really took off in the marketplace, and created a sizeable spike in film sales, which were approaching something of a zenith when digital cameras were only starting to gain traction in the market. If the remaining big three (Kodak, Fuji, Ilford) can manage this shift with some degree of stability–and I think they can–I thiink the current hand-wringing about film's utter disappearance will be seen as simply unnecessary drama.

Remember, too, that personal computers and the "Internets" have altered people's approach to photography as well: relatively few people shooting digital bother to have prints made of their images, prefering to send image files as e-mail attachments to family and friends, and using their desktop for wallpapering.screensaving those images as well. Then again, photo albums seem to be gaining in popularity, so who knows?


- Barrett

 

[Keith]

As long as there are companies producing retro style cars and there are other products that are aimed a specific market ... there will be film!

I can't see any reason why it wont be available in fifty years ... because as human beings we seem to have this tendency that the further we go forward the more we want to look back. It will be expensive I supect but hobbies are to be paid for after all!

 

[rlightfoot]

As long as there is movie film, there will be film in all formats. From what I've read, film is produced in wide rolls, and then cut to different widths for the different formats.

Is movie film identical to still film then? With the same ASA ratings etc?

There're some interesting posts here, especially amateriat's idea that film production will scale back to the pre-boom period.

I personally think film will be around forever, even if it eventually becomes a niche product that only enthusiasts and purist professionals use.

My personal feeling is that film vs. digital photography is similar to oil paints vs. graphics tablets and digital art mediums such as 3d, Photoshop painting or whatever. While a lot of impressive work can be done with eletronic tools, many serious artists will always prefer to get their hands messy and work with real paint.

I can't really believe that eletronic artists will ever match the awesome work created by people like Rembrandt, Monet and Van Gough... And so it is with film, I feel. The analog camera is a supreme tool, and I can't imagine it will ever lose it's place in the imaging world.

At least, I seriously hope not... I plan to invest in a Leica M one day in the not-too-distant future, and I hope it will last me a lifetime!

 

[cp_ste.croix]

Longer than vinyl and they still make lps.

 

[gb hill]

Can you operate a niche-sized film plant and still make money?

Another important question to ask: How much would you pay for film?

I think so. If Mr.K can make Bessa Rangefinder cameras and make a profit off of that I think a small company can make a good profit off of film. Holgas seem to be selling quite well for some reason also.

 

[Pablito]

I agree with Keith. Fifty years, maybe more. The cameras will still be around 50 years from now and people are curious! It's just that it will be expensive, a niche item. And there will be a smaller selection to choose from. Like typewriter ribbons today.

 

[rlightfoot]

Longer than vinyl and they still make lps.

Yeah, true. Vinyl has been through one of the biggest format shakeups in history... and it's still around, albeit in a pretty tiny niche.

A tiny niche is all I need, though... I've never been a big fan of the mass market.

 

[Mackinaw]

Here's an interesting thread currently on APUG. It's long, but well worth the read.

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/43354-who-who-world-film-manufacturing.html

 

[Keith]

There's one thing I meant to mention that I believe could see a sharp decline in film usage. Part of the reason for wanting film to be available for a lot of us is so we can still interact with our M2's IIIf's TLR's etc with our lenses of choice. Flexible sensor technollogy may be a reality so I've read ... not now but like all technology eventually ... and when it happens a digital insert for a film camera could be possible. There's plenty of room in there and with a battery on one side and the electronics on the other ... something removable that you plug into your PC to downoad the raw files when you get home, if reasonably priced, would definitely have a market!

 

[Traut]

I think environmental concerns will kill film before business conditions dictate. Think lead paint, mercury batteries, peroxide blondes (the judges are locking them up).

 

[rlightfoot]

Here's an interesting thread currently on APUG. It's long, but well worth the read.

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/43354-who-who-world-film-manufacturing.html

That was very interesting, if a little bleak.

There's one thing I meant to mention that I believe could see a sharp decline in film usage. Part of the reason for wanting film to be available for a lot of us is so we can still interact with our M2's IIIf's TLR's etc with our lenses of choice. Flexible sensor technollogy may be a reality so I've read ... not now but like all technology eventually ... and when it happens a digital insert for a film camera could be possible. There's plenty of room in there and with a battery on one side and the electronics on the other ... something removable that you plug into your PC to downoad the raw files when you get home, if reasonably priced, would definitely have a market!

Interesting... If film has to die one day, this would be a definite comfort, allowing our classic cameras to remain in use.

I think environmental concerns will kill film before business conditions dictate. Think lead paint, mercury batteries, peroxide blondes (the judges are locking them up).

I'd say electric cameras pose more of an environmental hazard than film production... a digital camera surely calls for far more resources and power to make and operate than a mechanical camera and some film. Add to that the fact that even the best digital cameras cannot hope to match the working lifespans of mechanical Leicas and the like.