How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[Godfrey]

I'm not hacking the Leica firmware.
The point of having the latest version of firmware saved is if the Camera needs a firmware reload. I've seen situations where the camera got into a bad mode and reloading the firmware reset the condition.

So now- I have the latest for the M9 and M Monochrom that were loaded by Leica with the installation of the new CCD and circuit board- in case I need to reload them.

That's interesting. I've never found a situation with any of my digital cameras, including all of my digital Ms, where reloading the firmware was necessary to clean up an in-camera error; I've certainly never done it! A simple camera reset has always restored proper operation. I don't know what kind of bad mode can affect the firmware, since the firmware is stored into a protected storage space.

Curious.

G

 

[Duofold RF]

I have the Pop Photo review of that camera. It is very interesting, but would not call it a knockoff. Wish I had one with the full set of lenses.

But- of the Chinese lenses that I own, none are copies and none violate any patent on an optical formula. "Look and Feel"? It's kind of like the Lawsuit that Harvey Comics brought against the Ghostbusters for drawing a Ghost that looked like Casper. There are only so many ways to make a lens for a Rangefinder camera.

LLL’s Leica copy, no patent infringe issue since the patent is expired, but I found their manufacture quality is still left room to improve.

 

[former member]

That's interesting. I've never found a situation with any of my digital cameras, including all of my digital Ms, where reloading the firmware was necessary to clean up an in-camera error; I've certainly never done it! A simple camera reset has always restored proper operation. I don't know what kind of bad mode can affect the firmware, since the firmware is stored into a protected storage space.

Curious.

G

It happened once to my M9. Firmware reload cleared the condition. I've had the camera for 12 years. Never happened on the M8 or M monochrom. Other Digital devices- happens. It's a last resort. And when it works, the lesson sticks with you. I've been working with computers since 1975.

 

[Godfrey]

It happened once to my M9. Firmware reload cleared the condition. I've had the camera for 12 years. Never happened on the M8 or M monochrom. Other Digital devices- happens. It's a last resort. And when it works, the lesson sticks with you. I've been working with computers since 1975.

I have been working with computers from about that time, too. We are the Olde Wizards. 😉

I haven't needed to reload the OS on any of my computers to fix a problem. I have had to do that with some ancillary devices' firmware but that was because they were in the middle of development and the firmware was not release quality yet.

So we've had different experiences, and therefore see this firmware download stuff from a different perspective. It's interesting.

G

 

[cboy]

So since its settled that a chinese digital RF is likely the next question is when will that be? Crystal ball 5- 10yrs. Or more likely Pixii will make a FF digital RF camera before then. Or is it even feasible in this economic climate? Im hopeful but not eagerly awaiting lest the photographic landscape has moved to medium format 😆

 

[Godfrey]

I don't have enough time to wait for "5 - 10 years" anymore. And I want to make photographs now. Thus rationalizes my digital Leica M cameras... 😉

G

 

[former member]

I don't have enough time to wait for "5 - 10 years" anymore. And I want to make photographs now. Thus rationalizes my digital Leica M cameras... 😉

G

I understand that, looking at the far side of 65. I don't make a living with photography, but have been an avid shooter for 60 years since Grandma gave me a Kodak Brownie. Also done the "bleeding edge" of opto-electronic tech for so long: for personal use, I use cameras that I like. I like the M8, M9, and M Monochrom. They get more use than anything else. I bought a Z5 this year, and the stride made in Mirrorless/EVF since the Olympus EP-2 is amazing. I sold an F3HP to pay for the Z5. I like the Nikon Df, and use it. But I like the M9 better than any camera I've ever handled. Plus I wrote my own code in Fortran for processing the DNG files from the M9, M Monochrom, and M8. Little-Endian format, and uncompressed images. So Easy.

 

[TL7]

Chinese RF has to be priced & configured right or it's just better to get a used M240.
Probably a couple of years.
I'm sure they are watching Pixii to see what happens there 1st..and then make their move.
I say.. 2 to 3 years...

 

[boojum]

Pixii did what IBM did when it moved from the Selectric to the PC. But cameras are not typewriters. Lots of folks love complex bling to wear around their necks and would have to be convinced to opt for electronic over mechanical as a status bling. And "Leica" confers status on so many moneyed Dunnig-Krugers.

I agree with Brian that the M9 is a sweet camera and with a good J8, or the Amotal on the front a stellar performer. But I also get great imaging results with those lenses on a Pixii. The Pixii color is slightly toned down so we enter what becomes a matter of taste. They both shoot good images. When Pixii comes back, grown up from A1571 to A2572 I will shoot some comparisons with the M9 and Pixii using the same lenses of the same objects at the same time. I'll be interested to see how they compare side by side. Perhaps others too. "On test is worth a thousand opinions."

 

[Duofold RF]

Both cosina and Fuji have the ability to make a digital M mount RF, or maybe Leica can issue an EVF mount RF to eliminate the focus shift issue.

 

[Godfrey]

I understand that, looking at the far side of 65. I don't make a living with photography, but have been an avid shooter for 60 years since Grandma gave me a Kodak Brownie. Also done the "bleeding edge" of opto-electronic tech for so long: for personal use, I use cameras that I like. I like the M8, M9, and M Monochrom. They get more use than anything else. I bought a Z5 this year, and the stride made in Mirrorless/EVF since the Olympus EP-2 is amazing. I sold an F3HP to pay for the Z5. I like the Nikon Df, and use it. But I like the M9 better than any camera I've ever handled. Plus I wrote my own code in Fortran for processing the DNG files from the M9, M Monochrom, and M8. Little-Endian format, and uncompressed images. So Easy.

Coming up on 69 this Summer ... 😉 ... I had three or four different photographic businesses over the course of my life, have similarly been making photos since I was about 7 or 8. So we have a bit in common.

I just stepped away from "mirrorless" (hate that term, why not call it "EVF/LCD camera" rather than defining a camera type by something it lacks?) because I find the electronic viewfinder no longer suits my eyes in daylight conditions as well as it did: my eyes don't accommodate to the dimness of the viewfinder quickly enough now. That's what brought me to try the Pixii, and that boosted me back into the M with the M10-M when I found that I couldn't get on with some of the Pixii issues/design notions.

I had the M9 and never found it particularly appealing for its lack of responsiveness and other minor issues. The M typ 240/262 series realized the digital M for me, and the M10 series, and finally M10-M, racked it up another couple of notches.

While I once wrote software similar to what you did for the M9 DNG files when I was at NASA (although my imaging sensors then were synthetic aperture radar units, not photographic image sensors), I'm happy to just work with the currently available tools. I don't want to be a programmer anymore, I retired from that world eight years ago.

...
I agree with Brian that the M9 is a sweet camera and with a good J8, or the Amotal on the front a stellar performer. But I also get great imaging results with those lenses on a Pixii. The Pixii color is slightly toned down so we enter what becomes a matter of taste. They both shoot good images. ..

I didn't have any problems with the imaging of the Pixii, my issues with it were all about the haptics and the poor power management in the firmware available at the time I had it. I do hope they've improved things a good bit since last April; I have nothing but good feelings about the Pixii folks and their intents.

There's a lot more to a camera than just good imaging. It takes years of work to bring a design to something as useful, consistent, and "mature" as an M10-M... So if some new Chinese RF camera were to appear on the market in a year or five, I suspect it would take yet another span of years beyond that to bring it up to anything approaching what the M10-M—and even the Pixii—is already

G

 

[former member]

Writing image processing code is relaxing for me. I view it as part of my photographic process. I like looking at an image output by my code, and being able to modify it. Fortran, Assembly, Wordstar.

 

[boojum]

<snip>

There's a lot more to a camera than just good imaging.

<snip>

G

Not for me. I buy a camera to make images, period. Apparently you have different priorities.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

<snip>


<snip>




Not for me. I buy a camera to make images, period. Apparently you have different priorities.

Ergonomics, user interface etc. don’t mean anything to you?

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

Ergonomics, user interface etc. don’t mean anything to you?

Ergonomics means a lot to me. If the camera doesn't feel right in my hand I don't want it.

I really wanted to get a Nikon DF when it came out but the darn thing felt terrible in my hand. So I passed on it.

Looks means something to me too. I like cool looking cameras!

All the best,
Mike

 

[Freakscene]

Not for me. I buy a camera to make images, period. Apparently you have different priorities.

I buy a camera to make images too, but if it’s too slow because of shutter lag, hard to hold, doesn’t focus accurately, has a shutter that produces rolling artefacts, or takes forever to write the images to a card, it gets in the way. Crazy menus and weird interfaces drive me nuts. I loved the images from the Sigma cameras with Foveon sensors but I could take photos faster with a medium format film camera. For me, a handy walking around camera needs to be fast.

Marty

 

[boojum]

Ergonomics, user interface etc. don’t mean anything to you?

That is important, but not very important to me. I buy a camera to take photos. Once it is set up user interface and so on are of little consequence. If I need super fast I have an A7 III which is a nosebleed for menus. I rarely use it because unlike you I do not need super fast street shots. I prefer the M9, Pixii and X2D for image and those are I what I use. They are quick enough for street but not quick enough for bursts of any real consequence.

A crappy image will not be improved if you can get it in a hurry.

 

[boojum]

I buy a camera to make images too, but if it’s too slow because of shutter lag, hard to hold, doesn’t focus accurately, has a shutter that produces rolling artefacts, or takes forever to write the images to a card, it gets in the way. Crazy menus and weird interfaces drive me nuts. I loved the images from the Sigma cameras with Foveon sensors but I could take photos faster with a medium format film camera. For me, a handy walking around camera needs to be fast.

Marty

I do not buy those kind of cameras so that eliminates a lot of bother. It must be reasonably quick, reasonably easy to focus and use. Why buy a nosebleed? So, winnow out the crap, buy a good one, point it and press the shutter button

Ergonomics, user interface etc. don’t mean anything to you?

And, why are you questioning my tastes and how I spend my money? I want you to answer that. Please.

You do not pay my rent, buy my groceries or employ me. You are not my daddy. You need only sweep the sidewalk in front of your own house. I did not say Godfrey was wrong, I said I had different priorities.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

And, why are you questioning my tastes and how I spend my money? I want you to answer that. Please.

You do not pay my rent, buy my groceries or employ me. You are not my daddy. You need only sweep the sidewalk in front of your own house. I did not say Godfrey was wrong, I said I had different priorities.

Because this is a discussion thread? It was just a question mate, not an inquisition.

 

[Godfrey]

Not for me. I buy a camera to make images, period. Apparently you have different priorities.

Well, so also do I. But if I find a camera is unresponsive when I need to capture a fleeting moment, difficult to find the correct settings due to a poor display or controls that operate inconsistently, running out of power after a half hour's light use, not providing adequate feedback to let me know the exposure has been made, etc etc, then that camera is not doing much to further my making photographs with it.

These are some of the difficulties I found when trying to use the Pixii, and are why I returned it ... as I detailed in the Pixii thread a year ago. And, just so you don't think I'm picking on the Pixii for some reason, I've returned or sold off many other cameras (from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Minolta, Pentax, etc) over the years for similar reasons.

Of course, we all have different sensitivities and different tolerances for faults with the equipment. I have been a photographer, both as a committed amateur and as a professional, for something on the north side of 60 years. I suppose I'm somewhat demanding that equipment I use operate in a particular way, consistently, within a fairly constrained range of plusses and minuses. 🙂

G