Cameras like the Leica X2 and Olympus E-PM1 and Panasonic's pancake zoom lead me to believe that we cannot be far away from having a P&S that fits in your pants pocket (somewhere between cargo and skinny jeans) and still has a sensor that delivers depth of field control and better dynamic range (m4/3 or APS-C compared to tiny sensor P&S cameras of today).
How far off are we from this type of camera?
How far off are we from this type of camera?
Matus
Well-known
Well, Leica X1 and X2 show that it is indeed possible - a m4/3 camera could be probably made even smaller. However it seems like that users do not really want that small cameras. One rarely hears complains about the size of m4/3 cameras or Sony NEX (lenses are different story though). Even if the camera has a fixed lens it will necessarily be slow (look at X1, X2) - and many complain already about f/2.8. Would you buy a m4/3 camera with fixed 17/2.8 or even slower lens just to save a few mm?
Once a cameras gets really small it gets harder to use as all the buttons and dials must be small too. And if the weight is too low handshake becomes a problem too.
And there is probably a final limit to a size of a camera with large sensor. Every time I use my GRDIII I am amazed how compact it is - but that is because it is a fixed lens and small sensor that make this possible.
So I think it is not really a technological challenge, just probably not economically interesting enough.
Once a cameras gets really small it gets harder to use as all the buttons and dials must be small too. And if the weight is too low handshake becomes a problem too.
And there is probably a final limit to a size of a camera with large sensor. Every time I use my GRDIII I am amazed how compact it is - but that is because it is a fixed lens and small sensor that make this possible.
So I think it is not really a technological challenge, just probably not economically interesting enough.
Yes, I would. Give me a Ricoh GRD with a m4/3 sensor and I'll be very happy. I'm also the type that thinks that f/2.8 is more than enough for a high ISO camera. I prefer fixed lens cameras though. I think cameras like the GRD are a perfect example of how this type of camera would be something that would sell (even if in limited quantities).
clear2000
Established
That's a good question. The Sigma DP2 kinda fits in your pocket but I'm really looking forward for something even smaller. I hear Sony is coming out with a fixed lens aps-c compact. Hopefully they get this one right.
Matus
Well-known
btgc
Veteran
Right, wanted to note DP-series, this are as small as it is needed. In fact, it's a faint bit too small. But then I'm not a big fanatic of artificially small things.
Why do you guys need pocketable cameras? Pockets are for cash to buy cameras, aren't they? And cameras, they are either in hand(-s), or on shoulder or neck. In a bag, when moved. In a box when new. But in a pocket???
Really? Where did you hear that?
As small as needed for you... perhaps not for others.
I don't NEED anything and perhaps my wants are not really rational... BUT I do want a high quality pocket camera. I just find the concept to be cool...
rbelyell
Well-known
am i the only one who can fit his x100 in his cargo jeans pocket??!!
tony
tony
No... but I meant regular pants pockets (in my OP).
kuzano
Veteran
Hmmm. When Sony gets something right???
Hmmm. When Sony gets something right???
Hope you aren't holding your breath on that one. Getting things right is not something Sony does well. For the most part, they are generally one to two years behind the curve on feature creativity. They can't seem to come up with serious competitive advancements relative to Olympus, Panasonic, and many others. Not leadership development kind of thinking. Plus, aren't they still putzing around with Foveon... Oh no, that's Sigma and their crippling attempt at creativity.
Hmmm. When Sony gets something right???
Hope you aren't holding your breath on that one. Getting things right is not something Sony does well. For the most part, they are generally one to two years behind the curve on feature creativity. They can't seem to come up with serious competitive advancements relative to Olympus, Panasonic, and many others. Not leadership development kind of thinking. Plus, aren't they still putzing around with Foveon... Oh no, that's Sigma and their crippling attempt at creativity.
damien.murphy
Damien
Fixed lens, Canon S95/S100-size, micro 4/3-size sensor, manual controls. I'm in 
kuzano
Veteran
You would be much more likely....
You would be much more likely....
You would be much more likely to achieve your goal by addressing (or dressing) the fashion statement side of that query.
A resurgence of Cargo Pants, Bush shirts, and Field coats will give you a solution within your remaining years. I foresee NO APS-C or full frame sensor cameras that will fit in anything but those fashion statements.
The old adage is, "you gotta dress funny or look funny to achieve all your aspirations", a truism for all walks of life.
Me, I'm retired and way past trying to impress anybody with how I dress. Hell, I'll sew a big enough pocket on anything hanging in my closet. I'll be out shooting while you're on the internet pining away about the utility of your fastidious array of garments, and pocket paranoia.
You would be much more likely....
You would be much more likely to achieve your goal by addressing (or dressing) the fashion statement side of that query.
A resurgence of Cargo Pants, Bush shirts, and Field coats will give you a solution within your remaining years. I foresee NO APS-C or full frame sensor cameras that will fit in anything but those fashion statements.
The old adage is, "you gotta dress funny or look funny to achieve all your aspirations", a truism for all walks of life.
Me, I'm retired and way past trying to impress anybody with how I dress. Hell, I'll sew a big enough pocket on anything hanging in my closet. I'll be out shooting while you're on the internet pining away about the utility of your fastidious array of garments, and pocket paranoia.
walnuts
Member
The solution to this has very little to do with the current level of technology. Look how big the sensor is in the Nokia 808. Its finding a suitable market(IE not RFF fanboys) for a camera like that, and camera companies clearly just don't see it yet.
clear2000
Established
It's just a rumor. I try to stay away from sites like this but this got my attention.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-next-sony-announcement-in-early-mid-june/
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-next-sony-announcement-in-early-mid-june/
kknox
kknox
I dont want them to small, I have big hands. As it is now the lens are bigger than the bodys.
Dogman
Veteran
Same here.
I find it difficult to impossible to use some of the small P&S cameras and I often hit the wrong button on my dSLRs due to the size of my fingers. Cameras are small enough already.
I find it funny that people think this will not happen. If there is an audience for small sensor P&S cameras, then why wouldn't there be one for a compact m4/3? The Olympus E-PM1 with the Panasonic pancake zoom come damn close already.
I'm 6' 2" and I can use these cameras. Not everyone is a giant and just because you guys don't want smaller cameras does not mean other do not.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I'd much prefer a full frame digital version of the Rollei 35, Minox GL or Olympus XA; complete with a bright line optical finder.
I don't see it happening though, unless Cosina move into digital.
I don't see it happening though, unless Cosina move into digital.