How many X-ray scannings have you gone through without problems?

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zerobuttons

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There are quite a few threads here about how careful or not one should be about bringing films through x-ray scanners. Because some people seem to get emotionally involved when this question comes up, I want to start a thread that tries to get hold of facts through experiences.

The question goes like this:
How many x-ray scans are the maximum you have experienced to take films through without seeing any kind of fogging or such?
Please let us know the following:
1) Places you went through
2) Which film(s)
3) Year

Let me know if anyone here can think of any other useful bits of information that should be there.
Oh - and please hold back all the answers regarding how many scannings you went through and then your films DID fog. They will not help, since it is impossible to tell at which point the problem ocurred.
 
London-Goa-Bombay-Goa-Bahrein (or possibly Dubai, I forget). Then back to London. 1999 or so. No problems, even with a test roll of Delta 3200.

Cheers,

R.
 
Let me be the first to answer my own posting [EDIT: Roger beat me to it]:

1) Copenhagen Airport + Entrance at Palazzo Pitti (Firenze) + Peretola Airport (Firenze)
2) 20 pcs. of Kodak Ektar 100
3) September 2009

1) Entrance at Palazzo Pitti (Firenze) + Peretola Airport (Firenze)
2) 4 pcs. of Kodak Portra 160 VC
3) September 2009
 
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I was wondering the same thing... I have been traveling in Europe and have around 60 exposed rolls of film. ISO 100+400 speed black and white and some slide film ISO 100-200. I pushed some of the ISO 400 BW film up to 1600. Should I be worried about one x-ray (paris to boston)? Can I check the film in the baggage?
 
From Germany to New Zealand in 2009 (via Dubai, Bangkok and Sydney + Christchurch - guys at New Zealand are VERY careful what BIO stuff you bring in - they scan all the luggage again) and back - the films were scanned 9 times all together!!! I did not know I will be forced to get out of the plane at every stop and re-check even if we did not change the plane or company (Emirates)

Important part: my fastest film was Kodak Porta400VC and Provia 400X - and no problem.

EDIT: my film was of course in the CARRY-ON luggage.
 
I think I had some ISO 100 and 400 X-rayed about 8-9 times with (i think) no ill effects.
Also had some Portra 160 and a couple of rolls of Velvia. June 2007


Local airport
International airport
Cruise ship entrance a couple of times
Train station in London
Museum in Paris
Notre Dame
CDG airport
Atlanta international
 
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Went to London on the Eurostar, from Brussels. A return trip a week later. No problems, negatives and scans clear as ever.

The English were VERY thorough and put my gear through the X-ray machine twice.

I carried:
Kodacolor 200
Kodacolor 400
Fomapan 200
Efke 100

Brought all these from home and took them back the same route. On the Eurostar, it's all carry-on luggage, but no hand held scanners.
 
DO NOT put film in checked luggage.

I've put 800, 400 and 100 film through six carryon scans with no impact that I could see.
 
zerobuttons said:
How many x-ray scans are the maximum you have experienced to take films through without seeing any kind of fogging or such?
Please let us know the following:
1) Places you went through
2) Which film(s)
3) Year
Click to expand...

I guess the maximum number of passes for a roll was: Berlin checkin, Moscow stopover, Tashkent customs control, Tashkent checkin, Andijan/Osh overland customs control, 7 passes through the bag scanner at the national archive in Almaty, Chernyaevka/G'isht-Ko'prik overland customs control, Tashkent checkin, Urgench checkin, Tashkent airport customs control, Tashkent checkin, Istanbul stopover, Berlin checkin again, Riga stopover, Tashkent customs control, an uncounted number of scans in the bag scanner at the national archive in Tashkent, Bukhara checkin, Tashkent checkin, Moscow stopover. All in 2007. I don't believe in fogging from hand-baggage scanners.

I've had exactly one roll of fogged film so far, and that was one I forgot in my luggage that went through a check-in baggage scanner in Tashkent in 2001. All other rolls from that year were fine.
 
I've put one roll of Tri-X developed at 1600 in my check in baggage, had a white band through the middle. Also had two rolls of Neopan 1600 go through carry on scanners in Melbourne and then in Taiwan, can't see any fogging there.
 
Anecdotal evidence proves nothing. I used to travel for a living, I took film through domestic airports twice a week every week for seven years. So what?

The research has been done (for the US) and it is online and available. Don't want to believe it? Then don't.

http://www.i3a.org/advocacy/itip/
 
My Little Nightmare Story

My Little Nightmare Story

Last May, I flew down to photograph my Nephew's college graduation (Florida State). Did the usual JFK shuffle (in my case: F Train to Jay Street-Boro Hall; A Train to Far Rockaway; AirTrain to my Delta flight. Except this time there was a crazy long line going through Security, and suddenly my time-cushion started bleeding air badly.

Normally, I have all film hand-inspected, and I've had no problem with TSA personnel in the past with this. My big nemesis this time was the clock. At precisely the moment when I decide to roll the dice in the name of saving time by letting my film go through The Machine, the airport P.A. rings out, calling my mane for my about-to-depart flight. Mild external panic, crazy-all-hands-on-deck internal panic. Can I jump the queue? Can anyone tell me yes/no? No help from anyone, but finally a TSA guy shows a bit of pity and tries to hurry things up. I struggle getting my belt and shoes back on, grab film, camera bag and duffel and beat a mad path to a disturbingly-quiet boarding gate.

Missed it.

I've been late for school, late for dinner, late for my second date with galfriend (oddly, she was upset for reasons having nothing to do with my lateness that afternoon...), but I've never missed an intercity train or any flight. I was livid for all of three minutes, then pulled myself together and went to the Delta desk, where I was instructed to head upstairs to see if someone else might help out. Lucky me: while one woman informed me that the only alternate flight she could book me on was leaving within an houre from LaGuardia ("Good luck with that" I muttered to myself...any exec chopper on standby to whisk me there?), her colleague, obviously a Delta veteran, worked the computer quickly to hook me up for a direct flight to Orlando (my original flight was connecting in Memphis), but I had to hurry. I had enough time to catch a quick bite, then dash to the gate. This obviously meant that I only had time to have my film subjected to a second X-ray pass, which I wasn't crazy about at all, but I felt I had no choice. The dice I was rolling looked a lot bigger now, Snake Eyes a distinct possibility.

Got to Orlando (late), Nephew picked me up, tired but cheerful, even though we had a 125-mile drive. Somehow woke up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, took a lot of snaps, partied a lot with family that night, awoke sometime before noon the next day, showered, shaved, and got shoved off to the airport (with enough time to have the exposed film hand-inspected), and got home with relatively little drama.

Film got processed (tally: two rolls Portra 160; three rolls Portra 400; one roll Ektar 100; eight rolls BW400NC; one roll Kodachrome 64 [MIA before I even got to shoot it :mad:]) I have to say that I think the double-dose X-ray did something that might have screwed with the contrast of the color film just a little, but I can't swear by it, and it might just be latent paranoia on my part. But I still believe that the less exposure film has to this stuff the better.

At least people liked the prints. ;)


- Barrett
 
I put my film in Hakuba x-ray bags, doubled up, and have had them x-rayed this way up to six times without any damage to the negatives whatsoever.
 
amateriat said:
Film got processed (tally: two rolls Portra 160; three rolls Portra 400; one roll Ektar 100; eight rolls BW400NC; one roll Kodachrome 64 [MIA before I even got to shoot it :mad:]) I have to say that I think the double-dose X-ray did something that might have screwed with the contrast of the color film just a little, but I can't swear by it, and it might just be latent paranoia on my part. But I still believe that the less exposure film has to this stuff the better.

- Barrett
Click to expand...

Dear Barrett,

Yes, it is. X-ray damage, when you see it, is quite recognizable (I've only seen it very seldom, and then, normally as a result of deliberate damage inflicted to provide a reference). Poor storage, poor processing and light strike account for most of the things most people claim as 'X-ray damage' -- which is indeed the disadvantage of anecdotal information.

As for 'the research has been done', I didn't see much in the way of methodology in the linked information, and 'all black and white' doesn't tie in with Ilford's research.

Oh: and commiserations with the horror story!

Cheers,

R.
 
Bill, this is just a conversation thread, an invitation to participate.

However, thanks for the link.

BTW, en route to Barcelona, Spain, my film got scanned in Chicago and London. And on the way back, since it was shortly after the March 11, 2004 bombings, it got scanned twice in Spain (Barcelona, Madrid) and once again in London.

Film was mostly Ektachrome 100, 200 and 400, with some K64 and one Kodak ISO 1600 that I had hand-checked at all times (BTW, never had any trouble with it). Also, two rolls of Scala ISO 200. There was no problem whatsoever with the film.

I also had a T-Max ISO 3200 accidentally X-rayed in Austin, TX (I mistook it for a roll of T-Max ISO 400). Neither the prints nor the negatives showed any damage, though I must admit to a certain loss of contrast (the film looked like overexposed). I may have lost some detail in the midtones, but nothing that couldn't be corrected with professional printing or Photoshop.

There goes my anecdotal evidence! Have a nice day! :)
 
scottwallick said:
I put my film in Hakuba x-ray bags, doubled up, and have had them x-rayed this way up to six times without any damage to the negatives whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Scott, do you know if security staffers have ever opened the x-ray bags? I mentioned in an earlier thread that I'm really dubious that they let a bag that's opaque to scanning pass through without opening and checking the contents, for obvious reasons. So, if they don't open x-ray bags, maybe the bags aren't that opaque.

Roger: I'm curious, too, about that reference to b&w. I've had the piece Bill cited stashed away for some time here and agree that some words about their methodology would be useful. Perhaps revealing the methodology veers into touchy security areas. I dunno. I don't think we know, for a fact, if airport personnel can increase or decrease the power or a scan. Or the impact of variances due to age, condition, operator skills, or the placement of the film in relation to other items in the luggage.

We're not going to learn any of this from security personnel since presumably they've signed a security agreement.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
As for 'the research has been done', I didn't see much in the way of methodology in the linked information, and 'all black and white' doesn't tie in with Ilford's research.
Click to expand...

The International Imaging Industry Association (I3A) is a non-profit organization whose members include virtually all of the major photographic film manufacturers. Members include Kodak, Fuji, and Agfa-Gevaert, among others. As far as I know, Ilford is not a member.

I3A says this about their standards:

I3A’s status as an accredited Standards Developing Organization enables us to take the formal approach when it’s called for. As secretariat for the International Organization for Standardization Technical Committee 42 (ISO/TC42) on Photography and administrator for the USA Technical Advisory Group for this committee, I3A is well qualified in the world of formal international standardization.
Click to expand...

The I3A's methodology is online and available. The I3A did the testing at TSA facilities, using TSA equipment, at the request of the TSA. The TSA used the results to formulate their own recommendations:

http://www.i3a.org/advocacy/itip/

Rapiscan devices are the machines used to x-ray your carry on baggage. The purpose of the I3A test was to determine the maximum x-ray exposure high-speed photographic film products can tolerate before functional damage occurs. This information was requested by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) in an effort to determine the optimum dosage to minimize damage to film products yet maintain the ability to recognize the contents and provide an adequate level of security.

Based on the testing completed at the TSA Training Center in Atlantic City, I3A recommends a limit of five passes through the carry-on baggage security checkpoint systems for all color negative and reversal film, including single-use cameras, up to and including ISO 800 speed film. While in some cases it may take a greater number of passes to cause damage to film, we believe that a five-pass limit allows an appropriate margin for safety. If lower-speed film, ISO 100 through 800, is being carried on extended trips, and it is necessary to submit the film through security screeners more than five times, travelers should request hand inspection of their film. I3A further recommends that all film with an ISO rating greater than 800, black and white films, motion picture films, and films used for medical imaging ALWAYS be hand inspected. FAA regulations support the request by passengers for hand inspection of film.
Click to expand...

Here is the methodology used:

Testing procedures:
1) All films were placed in trays and transported through the scanner for 1, 5, 10, 25, 50
and 100 passes. Films were placed on trays in a manner indicative of how a typical
traveler might pack their carry-on bags.
2) One roll from each category was held out as a reference.
3) After scanning was complete film samples were taken by, or sent to their respective
companies for processing and evaluation.
Evaluation procedures.
Each company processed, examined, and in some cases printed the test film. Examination
included the following criteria.
1) Dmin (base fog) increase for negative film.
a) Measured by transmission densitometer as well as visually inspected
2) Dmax decrease for reversal film.
a) Measured by transmission densitometer as well as visually inspected
3) Midtone gray density change.
4) Banding, and/or other uneven density deviations.
Selected films were printed to determine at what Dmin increase a functional and
unacceptable degradation of the image would occur.
Click to expand...

Now, I have no doubt that the results others may have in other nations may well be different. I have no information on that. The information above applies only to x-ray scanners located at airports in the USA to the best of my knowledge.

I have suggested in the past, and continue to state, that the research has indeed been done - by the industry itself, and for the benefit of consumers as well as the US government (to aid them in developing their own recommended best practices and at their request). This represents the best data available.

It it in any case superior to anecdotal evidence.

Last couple of points:

As to lead bags (mentioned in several posts above), the TSA does not recommend their use in carry-on bags, and the high-energy scanners used in checked bags won't stop the utter destruction of any film they touch. Feel free to believe anecdotal reports of non-damage as desired. Note that those who encourage their use will not reimburse you for any film damaged if you follow their advice, now will they?

Regarding x-ray damage; x-rays damage undeveloped film. Period. The only question is how much they damage the film. If the damage is undetectable by the human eye, then one may well choose to accept the results. It is for all intents and purposes undamaged. However, this is not the same as saying that x-rays do not damage film; they do.

Regarding film in checked bags; not every single checked bag is scanned. Those that are may still miss things in the bag itself, and thus checked undeveloped film may escape damage. However, if the scanner hits the film, it is toast.

I do not know how else to provide the information. I fail to understand why anyone would continue to solicit anecdotal advice when the research has, indeed, been done and made available in a completely transparent manner.

However, people should feel free to do just as they wish, as always.
 
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