How much abuse can a mechanical-M REALLY take?

[maitrestanley]

Leica (mechanical) M's have been known for their build quality and reliability in the field. They literally last decades and can put up with a lot of abuse.

What I want to discuss today is: how much abuse can the M body really take and how much abuse has your M body taken? Your opinions/experiences please.



I took my M6/35cron out in a Canadian blizzard just last week. To give further detail, it was -23C and we received around a foot of snow in 6-8 hours. When I got home (about an hour later) from my trek, the camera body was soaked (the lens not so much because I kept it covered in my hand). I was able to easily smell the chemical scent of wet film so moisture definitely penetrated the body. However, not once did the camera fail on me when I was out there. As far as I know, there has not been extensive damage to either the mechanics or electronics.

When shooting in really cold conditions, the first 'link of the chain' to die is usually the electronics/batteries of a camera. The first time I brought the M6 out in -15 to -30C conditions, I was sure the meter would fail after 30 minutes of cold exposure - but it never did. On other occasions, I've had my camera out and exposed to these kinds of conditions for as long as 4 hours and it has yet to fail.

Because of this level of performance and reliability, I am extremely confident in the mechanical M system. I don't believe in investing in (expensive) equipment that cannot keep up with the user. Ironically, the M will probably be the body that I will have trouble keeping up with in adverse conditions 😛 If I ever get a dSLR, it will definitely NEED to be weather sealed. However, I still doubt a digital camera's performance in really cold conditions - one would constantly need to take the batteries out to warm them up in pockets (or underpants 😛)

 

[Xmas]

You may get moisture ingress and consequent ill effects you camera repair person will really like having to clean the innards >>C$.

One of my Kievs is rusting badly internally. Still works ok.

Noel

 

[JNewell]

Two stories, one with a happy ending and one without.

Several years ago I took my M3 on a winter backpacking trip. The camera sustained serious damage to the shutter as a result of some slips on the trail and required pretty expensive repairs. The thing that amazed me, and still amazes me now, is that the camera was packed inside a wool shirt (yes, it was a few years ago!) and then again inside a wool sweater. In other words, more richly padded than most packages we commit to UPS or the post office. That experience did not encourage me to think of the M as particularly durable.

Happier result: not too long ago I dropped an M6 onto a hardwood floor from waist height. (I'm 6-5 or ~196cm for our metric friends.) It landed on the corner of the wind lever-side of the top plate. I feared the worst...but there was no damage to the shutter...no damage to the meter...no damage to the top plate, cosmetic or otherwise... Those zinc top plates get lots of no respect...from Leica owners generally and from me...but I was both very pleased and very impressed. Edited to add: there was also no damage to the rangefinder, which stayed vertically aligned and, as far as I could tell from the prints, accurate with respect to focus.

Not sure what lessons to draw from any of this...the first incident should not have damaged any camera, the second one probably should have, and the results seem wrong way 'round to me.

 

[x-ray]

Leica M bodies and lenses are not weather sealed or even close. You're probably going to have some problems down the road. Most likely you'll see shutter problems.

Battery life is another issue. It sepends on the battery not the camera.

Hard use is no problem. In the 60's when I purchased my first 3 M's I was a young college student and could'nt handle the cost of new equipment. In my 2 M2's and m3 I shot in excess of 10,000 rolls in a few short years with only an RF alignement and selt time spring replaced. Who knows how amny rolls these cameras had through them before I got them. At that time the majority of M's were being used by pros that shot tons of film. Over the 4 decades of my M shooting I've shot under severe conditions from -25 F to 117 F and in dirt and desert sand with no problems. I don't go out of my way to abuse them but if they get wet or sand in them then they get a prompt trip to the service center. You certainly don't want dirt, sand or water in the lubricants.

 

[x-ray]

I should telll the story of my mentor in the early days of my PJ work. Henry was riding his 10 speed (funny, 10 spoeed) down the street at a good clip. He had his NEW M4 hanging on the handle bars with a nech chain. The neck chain broke and the M4 with a 50 summicron bounces about 100 ft. The top was torn off, all the vulcanote came off, the bottom was torn off, all the prisms in the RF were broken and two elements came out of the lens and the lens was seperated from the body. His insurance paid off and Leica Germany made a new top plate with the original SN and put it back in new condition.

On eof the best stories I ever read was in a 1960 Leica magazine. A sky diver had his M3 strap break during a jump. His early M3 fell a couple of thousand feet and embedded its self in mud. It was found and the owner advanced the shutter to find it worked. He discovered the RF was broken but snalled the rest of the roll and found every frame was OK.

 

[Ash]

I'm not planning on finding out how much abuse mine will take.

 

[Xmas]

Ash

The dink on my M2 top plate is way bigger then Marks.

Noel

 

[amoz]

Since we're, amongst other things, talking weather sealing: who has taken his/her RF to the humid tropics?

I have spent 11 weeks in the rain forest of French Guiana (just north of Brazil, borders the Atlantic Coast) a few years ago. I didn't have a rangefinder back then, but had heard stories of fungi growing inside camera bodies so I decided to buy a good zoom lens for my Canon EOS 30 in order to never have to switch lenses (and thus directly expose the inner camera to the incredibly humid circumstances). The results were ok, but I quickly sold the zoom when I returned because I prefer fixed lenses anyway.

Now that I have a new stay in the rain forest coming up this year, I am wondering what equipment to take, but to stick to the topic as closely as possible I will reduce this to the simple question stated above; anybody got experience to share on this one?

 

[Kin Lau]

I took my M6/35cron out in a Canadian blizzard just last week. To give further detail, it was -23C and we received around a foot of snow in 6-8 hours. When I got home (about an hour later) from my trek, the camera body was soaked (the lens not so much because I kept it covered in my hand).

If you're talking about the storm we had last week here in Toronto, it might have felt like -23C with the windchill, but the real temp was closer to -10C. You can check the hourly temps @ Environment Canada here for March 1.

In either case, getting a mechanical camera wet is not good. Rust and other types of corrosion aren't immediately evident.

I would also stick that 35cron in a bag with some silica gel to fully dry it out and prevent fungus.

 

[maitrestanley]

Since we're, amongst other things, talking weather sealing: who has taken his/her RF to the humid tropics?

I have spent 11 weeks in the rain forest of French Guiana (just north of Brazil, borders the Atlantic Coast) a few years ago. I didn't have a rangefinder back then, but had heard stories of fungi growing inside camera bodies so I decided to buy a good zoom lens for my Canon EOS 30 in order to never have to switch lenses (and thus directly expose the inner camera to the incredibly humid circumstances). The results were ok, but I quickly sold the zoom when I returned because I prefer fixed lenses anyway.

Now that I have a new stay in the rain forest coming up this year, I am wondering what equipment to take, but to stick to the topic as closely as possible I will reduce this to the simple question stated above; anybody got experience to share on this one?

It will be a good idea to buy a lot of those dessication packs to soak up moisture and humidity. Stick your camera / lens in an airtight container each night with a few of those packs and you'll sleep easier. Better yet, buy a strong UV light that will kill microorganisms and expose your equipment to it each night (not your film.. for obvious reasons).

 

[ferider]

Happier result: not too long ago I dropped an M6 onto a hardwood floor from waist height. (I'm 6-5 or ~196cm for our metric friends.) It landed on the corner of the wind lever-side of the top plate. I feared the worst...but there was no damage to the shutter...no damage to the meter...no damage to the top plate, cosmetic or otherwise... Those zinc top plates get lots of no respect...from Leica owners generally and from me...but I was both very pleased and very impressed.

Similar experience here: My M6 was brushed off my shoulder and fell on
a restaurant hardwood floor (I'm 192cm). No effect noticeable, even the RF stayed
aligned. It was in a Luigi case with grip though, the leather grip might
have taken some of the impact.

Roland.

 

[mw_uio]

It is awesome to hear stories about camera's in extreme conditions, out in the world, and not the regular blah blah about which bag/leather case it is in!! D

Cheers

MArk
Quito, EC

 

[darkkavenger]

I remember seeing the battered M7 of the war reporter/photographer Patrick Chauvel who was back from Irak in 2003, when he came at work here to give a conference. The camera was fitted with a 35 'cron that would make everybody here wince in pain. The filter ring of the lens was totally deformed and the M body and lens were showing bare metal, with paint chirps ripped off from several parts of the camera.

I asked him what had happened to the lens, and he told me that when you have to jump on the ground or hide in destroyed buildings to save your life in the middle of a war action. You can see a photo of Patrick Chauvel here, i think it was in his youth, in Vietnam, and he's wounded. On his neck, probably the M3 that Gilles Caron offered him.

I warmly recommend his DVD, "Rapporteurs de Guerre". From the few occasions I could talk with him, I can say, despite the apparent ruggedness of the man, that he has lived with death as a close, silent companion.

Btw, sorry for the disgression in the topic. I'm not an expert of Leica cameras, but this battered one, used daily in Irak's chaos, shows what the quality of a Leica is and what it is made for.

Max

 

[maitrestanley]

If you're talking about the storm we had last week here in Toronto, it might have felt like -23C with the windchill, but the real temp was closer to -10C. You can check the hourly temps @ Environment Canada here for March 1.

In either case, getting a mechanical camera wet is not good. Rust and other types of corrosion aren't immediately evident.

I would also stick that 35cron in a bag with some silica gel to fully dry it out and prevent fungus.

I'm situated in Waterloo and the temperature here last week during the storm was around -15 to -18 before windchill according to the waterloo university weather station

 

[Kin Lau]

I'm situated in Waterloo and the temperature here last week during the storm was around -15 to -18 before windchill according to the waterloo university weather station

I think they might be just a bit off.... just think about it, at -15C, how difficult it would be to get your camera _wet_, even getting the film wet.

That would have also put Waterloo as 10 degrees colder than Thunder Bay. We are talking about the same storm that later brought freezing _rain_ right?

edit: the Waterloo University Weather Stations online records are available here

 

[jkelly]

I try to be careful with my M3. It's 52 years old and has lots of dings and scratches, but mechanically and optically it's perfect. I certainly don't want to do something that will damage the rangefinder, since they are impossible to replace. I don't baby it, though.

On the other hand, I have a Pentax K1000 that I purchased new in 1976, and have run hundreds if not thousands of rolls through it without a service, and it works like new, though it does not look it. Leicas aren't the only tough cameras.

 

[amateriat]

Don't-Try-This-At-Home Dept.

Don't-Try-This-At-Home Dept.

Can't speak of Leica Ms, but there was a Camera 35 article (early 80s) about a Leicaflex SL-2 MOT-equipped photographer who had to punch out of a USMC F-4 Phantom with the pilot when a stunt maneuver with another F-4 (flying upside-down overhead when it flamed out) went terribly awry. The good news was that pilot and photographer (as well as the other F-4 pilot) 'chuted safely to terra firma; the bad news, for the SL-2, was that it was on its own...from five miles up. (Picture of the unfortunate Leica is somewhere on here, from me...don't have the page scan handy at the moment). Let's just say that the poor thing was barely functional after it landed, but was surprisingly intact (and recognizable!), and was considered repairable.


- Barrett

 

[Ororaro]

Aaaaahhhh! "Weather seal", Canon's biggest lie and Gearhead's biggest concern.

 

[maitrestanley]

I think they might be just a bit off.... just think about it, at -15C, how difficult it would be to get your camera _wet_, even getting the film wet.

That would have also put Waterloo as 10 degrees colder than Thunder Bay. We are talking about the same storm that later brought freezing _rain_ right?

edit: the Waterloo University Weather Stations online records are available here

Meh. I'm not out to prove the temperature here - I just wanted to illustrate the adverse weather conditions. Just take what I said with a grain of salt: It was cold and wet 😛 The camera got wet because the snow that fell on it melted and seeped into the cracks. Even though I was constantly brushing snow off, the camera itself remained wet. Also, there were times when I would stick the camera inside my jacket to 'protect' it from overexposure to the snow.

The camera has been out with me in really cold conditions though. For example, I had it out on Monday and Tuesday night, testing high ISO settings on the streets of DT. If I remember correctly, the temperature dropped to -17 at night.

 

[cary]

Ten pounds of high explosives vaporized my Hasselblad 500CM and several lenses at work.

Cary