How much should you pay?

[5nap5hot]

I am on the fence about trying a Leica. I have narrowed it down to 3 models. The M4 , the M2 and the M6.

I don't want to go overboard on price. I just want a decent quality rangefinder. How much should I be prepared to pay for a decent non-fixer-upper.

Price for M2= ??
Price for M4= ??
Price for M6= ??

I just am feeling the GAS and don't want to overbid on Ebay 😛

 

[Keith]

The only one of those I own is the M2 which I did buy off ebay recently. Needa a CLA which Youxin Ye will be doing as soon as I get the camera to him.

It cost me $400.00 and has a bit of missing vulacanite on the rear door and had a hanging shutter at the lower speeds plus the odd small dent on the top cover. I was happy to get it at that price though as I had seen similar go for more!

I reckon it's one of the better M's if you want a meterless camera with it's 35/50/90 frameline combination. You can use a 28mm lens without a finder by framing around the edge of the viewfinder and 135mm lenses aren't really hot property on a rangefinder anyway! The end product will owe me around $550.00 I've seen clean unmarked ones go for close to a grand!

Cheers. 🙂

 

[jonasv]

I'll pay € 750 for a black M4-P in a few days. Probably a bit on the high side for the camera itself, but it has recently been serviced and it comes with a warranty. Plus it saves me the cost and bother of international shipping and/or customs. The camera definitely isn't mint but it's not a beater either. In fact it's pretty clean, just some small marks.

Can't wait to pick it up...

Have you considered an M4-2 or M4-P? Considering both the M4 and the M6 would be ok with you, these two should fit your use as well, and they're generally quite a bit cheaper.

 

[pvenables]

I paid £450 for an M2 on ebay. Pretty much perfect apart from that fact that the rear door has a few light dents. All speeds appear to work, I ran a roll of Provia 100 through it when I bought it and all frames were on the button.

The M2 has a different look, feel, sound and smell to the M6. If you like handling/using old cameras and have a lightmeter already [or can guess correctly], I'd go for an M2. But then I like old cameras.

My M6 cost about £700 [again, in perfect condition, BTW].

Paul

 

[telenous]

It really depends on the condition of the camera. The best would be to find a user body with tip-top functionality. Of the three cameras you mention the M2 is the 'friendlier' priced because it is the oldest but if in good condition it has nothing to envy from its descendants. Leica took fifty years to arrive at a model (the MP3) that purposefully resembles a hybrid of the M2/3, perhaps in recognition of the beauty of these two designs. Full circle.

As for the other two cameras in your list, while the M4 is definitely the latest classic Leica, and a jewel at that, it carries a price tag that is rather steep for a meterless camera. It wouldn't be a surprise if you found a good M6 classic that went for less. To check for prices do an advanced search on closed auctions in Eboy (I suspect you will find M2s going around £350, M6 classic around £550 and M4s in excess of £650).

 

[Andrew3511]

I bought both my Leicas on price (put the money in the lenses in my view) and the M2 was £550 with a rigid Summicron, in good condition but scuffed top plate and small bit of missing Vulcanite, optically and mechanically very good. The M4-P was £499 with a Summicron 40mm but is a bit rough. Someone has attempted to adjust the rangefinder without the proper tools and it ideally needs a CLA. Both were from dealers in the London area. This does give you a bit more protection as a buyer than e-bay which has some bargains but generally not in desirable Leica items.

 

[5nap5hot]

So an M2 would be the model of choice for someone wanting to step into the world of Leica at a reasonable cost?

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

condition condition condition 🙂


but speaking generally and broadly

M2 = $400 to $700
M4 = $600 to $900
M6 = $1000 to $1400

With cameras that you're not sure about in terms of function, factor in about $200 for a CLA. good luck

 

[Keith]

condition condition condition 🙂


but speaking generally and broadly

M2 = $400 to $700
M4 = $600 to $900
M6 = $1000 to $1400

With cameras that you're not sure about in terms of function, factor in about $200 for a CLA. good luck

I definitely second Tom's views here.🙂

 

[jkelly]

The M2 seems to be a hot model now in the used market, and I tend to think the prices are a bit inflated. I bought a user M3 in perfect mechanical condition a few months ago for under $400. I am not a wide-angle shooter, so the lack of 35mm flamelines doesn't bother me, and I like the automatic frame counter better than the manual one on the M2. I don't use a meter, so that is not a factor. Both the M2 and M3 are great cameras, but I think you can get a better price right now on an M3.

 

[ffttklackdedeng]

I was very recently searching for an almost mint M2. The first one went for almost 1300$, the next one for approx. 800$ (and I'm waiting for the confirmation and then the mail now 🙂 )

Where do you 'hunt'? U.S.? Europe?

 

[burninfilm]

Just thought I'd mention that the KEH's grading of Leica M's is basically exactly like their rating scale. After seeing a few M3's from KEH sell on Eb@y, it seems that their "bargain" condition M3's commonly have missing vulcanite, dents, dings, scratches, etc. Not pretty at all, but likely useable. I wouldn't consider what I've seen as having been described conservatively, but at least they were described accurately.

 

[ampguy]

I'd second the M4P

I'd second the M4P

addl. frame lines, and faster film loading are worth it.

I'll pay € 750 for a black M4-P in a few days. Probably a bit on the high side for the camera itself, but it has recently been serviced and it comes with a warranty. Plus it saves me the cost and bother of international shipping and/or customs. The camera definitely isn't mint but it's not a beater either. In fact it's pretty clean, just some small marks.

Can't wait to pick it up...

Have you considered an M4-2 or M4-P? Considering both the M4 and the M6 would be ok with you, these two should fit your use as well, and they're generally quite a bit cheaper.

 

[sejanus]

I decided to go the other way for wide angle and got myself a very nice IIIc from Mwclassic for £125. Screwed in my J12 and pushed on my Soviet copy multifinder and I'm in business!

I never got on with the M2's finder, which is nothing like as nice as the M3's. I'd like a M4 but not, I think, at those prices.

 

[adep]

I bought my M2 from KEH in "bargain" condition for $650, it's got a few bright marks on the top and bottom plates and a small dimple of a dent near the viewfinder. It has very clean viewfinder/rangefinder windows (I'm guessing their service department does a cleaning when they get things in). Mechanically it is great. I was surprised to find that the one I got was modified with M6 framelines and a quick load thingie.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Regarding KEH ...

I've only purchased lenses from them, never cameras.

Can anyone shed light on whether Leica cameras purchased from KEH are guaranteed to be shutter speed accurate? That is, if you pick up a Bargain condition M3 body, is it guaranteed to not need a CLA? Or does the 'Bargain' merely refer to the cosmetic condition of the camera? anyone with experience?

thanks

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

lol, never mind, I see Alan just answered my exact question 🙂

 

[planetjoe]

I'm also wondering about Tom's question of KEH's "Leica conditions". I've always had good experiences with them, but they seem to list a LOT of old RF equipment as "bargain" or "ugly". Gets me thinking.

There was (still is, maybe) a coll. Summicron listed as "UG", and I asked KEH about it. The reply was the stock definition for "UG", which I already knew. I guess they can't give specific details about their equipment, which I can understand. There's a big difference, though, between a front element scratch and a rear element scratch, you know?

As for prices, I'd second (third?) Tom's former assessment:

M2 = $400 to $700
M4 = $600 to $900
M6 = $1000 to $1400

...before CLA, of course. Those were the ranges I was looking at when I was shopping for an M2 about six months ago. And there were plenty of them. However, I was lucky enough to find a "fire sale"-priced M4 on the 'bay, which ended up going for ~$800 with a Summitar. As it turns out, it was a lucky grab. After initially worrying about whether the seller was legit, the body turned out to be in great condition and the lens needed a CLA.

YMMV; I'd still fully expect M4s to be $800-$1000 in that condition, though.


Cheers,
--joe