dee
Well-known
Just musing because I have been fortunate enough to have some Contax/Kiev II/hybrids rebuilt by ex-Arsenal Kiev Techs in Ukraine .
My CLA Leica IIIc/Elmar was around £350. and to my mind an early 50s Kiev II is equally desirable , is equally excellent to USE is of similar quality , but lacks the kudos of Leica .
A 1950-1957 Kiev 2 / 2a ,has the advantage over the Contax, of being near are near mint cosmetically ["cos when most broke down they were mothballed ! ], would be around £100 or so plus another £100 for an essential Oleg thorough CLA.
To me , biased as I am , this is an acceptable price to pay for an exquisitely finished , [ yes they are ] quiet and smooth, classic camera with all of the Contax experience which later Kiev 4/4a simply lack due to poor finish and construction .
I agree that a Kiev 4/4a is probably available from Oleg when he has one, for half the outlay and some would consider £200 excessive for a camera made in Ukraine , but would you b emitting out on enjoying a genuinely classic camera ?
dee
My CLA Leica IIIc/Elmar was around £350. and to my mind an early 50s Kiev II is equally desirable , is equally excellent to USE is of similar quality , but lacks the kudos of Leica .
A 1950-1957 Kiev 2 / 2a ,has the advantage over the Contax, of being near are near mint cosmetically ["cos when most broke down they were mothballed ! ], would be around £100 or so plus another £100 for an essential Oleg thorough CLA.
To me , biased as I am , this is an acceptable price to pay for an exquisitely finished , [ yes they are ] quiet and smooth, classic camera with all of the Contax experience which later Kiev 4/4a simply lack due to poor finish and construction .
I agree that a Kiev 4/4a is probably available from Oleg when he has one, for half the outlay and some would consider £200 excessive for a camera made in Ukraine , but would you b emitting out on enjoying a genuinely classic camera ?
dee
oftheherd
Veteran
Well, in my case, I paid much less for my Keiv 4am. I think, with shipping, it was about $90.00, with Helios lens. I don't use it that much, in fact, below 50th second, the upper curtain doesn't close properly right now. But even when working well, I am much more an SLR guy. I purchased a known non-working Contax II for about $50.00; it needs new straps.
I am in no hurry to fix either one as I have good SLR and SLR lenses. And I am just not an RF fanatic. I used to enjoy the Kiev sometimes, but I'm not crazy about it. I think I might enjoy it and the Contax more if I could afford decent wide angle lenses for them, but I cannot justify it.
I am in no hurry to fix either one as I have good SLR and SLR lenses. And I am just not an RF fanatic. I used to enjoy the Kiev sometimes, but I'm not crazy about it. I think I might enjoy it and the Contax more if I could afford decent wide angle lenses for them, but I cannot justify it.
Wulfthari
Well-known
It depends by the soviet camera, if it's "special" (for instance, a Kiev 18 or an Almaz 104 in working conditions) I wouldn't have problems spending that money for it, but for a Kiev 2 not really as it is more than what I spent for my Contax IIa.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Yea, £200 is expensive for "made in Ukraine". They are second class people and country for UK elite, I guess.
FrankS
Registered User
Fixed it for you. Why be so inflammatory?
BillBingham2
Registered User
Perhaps because he doesn't know the strong history of building many high quality products. Sadly many of us in the states know little about the old "Satellite" states.
B2 (;->
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Calling Kiev 2 as second class cameras is inflammatory. BS, to be exact.
And in terms of "Satellites", one of my colleague from East Germany spend few years at the same factory, working together with Ukrainians for "government sector" projects to build special optics designated to be on the orbit in space.
And in terms of "Satellites", one of my colleague from East Germany spend few years at the same factory, working together with Ukrainians for "government sector" projects to build special optics designated to be on the orbit in space.
FrankS
Registered User
Ko.fe., Did you call the Ukrainian people and country second class? No, you were referring to the perception of others, as I was, regarding the cameras.
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
What I like about FSU cameras is you can pay 1/10 of the price and get 9/10 of the functions. Everyone can afford one of them, and use them, and thus more fun. Hope it doesn't sound too communist.
How much am I willing to spend on them is something more complicated. For now it's 60€, say, for a Zorki-6 with a lens in working condition.
How much am I willing to spend on them is something more complicated. For now it's 60€, say, for a Zorki-6 with a lens in working condition.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
And, back to our regularly scheduled programming, shall we? :bang:
The emphasis is on "use" so I would have to say, not more than I would pay for a good user German or Japanese camera. With the exception of some Leica and Nikon models, that is a very low price floor indeed, these days. Post-war Contax and Canon RF bodies generally aren't worth very much, for example. And if you're serious about "using," i.e. if you value fast, convenient, reliable picture-taking over style/chic/looks, an older CV Bessa.
The emphasis is on "use" so I would have to say, not more than I would pay for a good user German or Japanese camera. With the exception of some Leica and Nikon models, that is a very low price floor indeed, these days. Post-war Contax and Canon RF bodies generally aren't worth very much, for example. And if you're serious about "using," i.e. if you value fast, convenient, reliable picture-taking over style/chic/looks, an older CV Bessa.
goamules
Well-known
I'd rephrase the question. How cheap does a FSU have to be for you to buy it? The market has set the answer the past 20 years. First, after Communism fell, people would buy "Leica Copies" as a novelty for $20. Then, with the internet Renaissance of film, people were willing to pay up to $100 for good Soviet camera. As the prices rose in the past 5 years though, most realized the quality was not up to German or Japanese standards, and yet the prices were going UP on FSU, but DOWN on Contax, Leicas and Canons! Now the prices are dropping back down. So the market has decided. For me, I would pay up to $40 for a good FED body, and maybe $75 for a Kiev. That's it.
BillBingham2
Registered User
I think if I had the resources I had in High School (unlimited Tri-X, chemicals, way cool Dark Room) I'd go for them again. I paid about $200 for a CLAed and customized Fed-2 but it didn't work as well as I expected. Even when I was making a good salary spending $15 a roll (film, processing, basic scanning) was too much for a camera that works some of the time. I'd rather pay an extra couple of hundred for a camera that was more reliable.
If it was as reliable as my old IIIa, I'd pay $200 again without hesitation. To me, loosing the frame makes savings in the price of a body less relevant.
I do love the design of the Fed-2 especially when you add a Fed-4 wind spool.
B2 (;->
If it was as reliable as my old IIIa, I'd pay $200 again without hesitation. To me, loosing the frame makes savings in the price of a body less relevant.
I do love the design of the Fed-2 especially when you add a Fed-4 wind spool.
B2 (;->
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
How many IIIa were made comparing to 1.632.600 of FED-2?
How many IIIa have been serviced by certified technician, not customized by enthusiast?
Believe me, my FED-2 was working decades ago and works now after single CLA.
As many others from 1.632.600 made do as fine as my camera.
For example, I took another FED-2 to delivery room couple of years ago. Not a single frame was lost.
How many IIIa have been serviced by certified technician, not customized by enthusiast?
Believe me, my FED-2 was working decades ago and works now after single CLA.
As many others from 1.632.600 made do as fine as my camera.
For example, I took another FED-2 to delivery room couple of years ago. Not a single frame was lost.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Trouble is no two people will agree about what is classic and no two will agree a fair price, and then there's ebay...
As for Contax and Kiev, I see them the same way I see my pure Japanese cameras and the later ones " ...assembled in ........... from parts made in Japan" and the even later "Made in ..............." ones. They all perform the same and that's all I worry about. But I'm not an accountant.
FWIW, as regards price, I paid USD 5 for the FED-2 (classic imo), UKP 5 for the Jupiter lens on it and picked up two old Industar 61's for just under a pound. I gave one of the 61's to a RFFer somewhere and kept the other and mean to get it greased a bit as it's stiff. OTOH, I paid a lot more for a FED 30's Summar clone just to complete the set. It's swings and roundabouts, I guess.
Regards, David
Trouble is no two people will agree about what is classic and no two will agree a fair price, and then there's ebay...
As for Contax and Kiev, I see them the same way I see my pure Japanese cameras and the later ones " ...assembled in ........... from parts made in Japan" and the even later "Made in ..............." ones. They all perform the same and that's all I worry about. But I'm not an accountant.
FWIW, as regards price, I paid USD 5 for the FED-2 (classic imo), UKP 5 for the Jupiter lens on it and picked up two old Industar 61's for just under a pound. I gave one of the 61's to a RFFer somewhere and kept the other and mean to get it greased a bit as it's stiff. OTOH, I paid a lot more for a FED 30's Summar clone just to complete the set. It's swings and roundabouts, I guess.
Regards, David
tyrone.s
Well-known
The story of a Fed 1 user
The story of a Fed 1 user
Hmmm, how much? Well, back in 2007 I bought a Fed 1 in person from a camera shop for (I think) Au$200! (Although the camera guy might have thrown in a working light-meter). Anyway, about a year earlier I'd bought a Pentax *ist DL for $1000 which had got me interested in photography. So the Fed was cheap compared to a new camera at the time, but not cheap ...
Now I used the Fed, which was my first rangefinder, for maybe 10 rolls, including on the Great Wall of China before I found out that the shutters had developed a lot of pin-holes. So I posted the camera to Oleg and he fixed it. Repair and postage, say a hundred bucks?
So now I'm up to $300 for a Fed that I actually still use from time to time. After the Oleg CLA and shutter repair it seems smooth and it's as nice as a Barnack Leica to use, IMO.
Today I'm sure I could buy a Leica (or Contax) for $300, but I'm not sure if it'd be any functionally better off or with a *more classic camera* - or have a lens. Not sure what one of these would have cost in 2007 and I wasn't buying eBay cameras back then.
Anyway, the Pentax is now sitting in a box, unused and unloved despite taking over 10,000 photos. It's worth basically nothing and the Fed is worth whatever a working and CLA'd Fed is worth. But I know that the Fed will work and will now always work for me. I can't help but feel that I overspent on the Fed. But then I've spent more on dinner so it's not the end of the world and I have fond memories of the camera, where it went and what photo's I've taken with it.
Hopefully the price of Russian Rangefinders (and especially lenses!) will come down (lonely bodies will but lenses not due to u4/3 and NEX et al). Currently I have 1954 KNEB II and that needs new ribbons and a CLA. So off to Oleg again, I think, another $100+ repair and postage on top of the $50 I paid on eBay for it about 4 years ago. So that'll be a $150 bargain.
So long story short, I'll spend as much or as little as I can to actually have a working camera that I can use regardless of what some other potential camera might cost.
The story of a Fed 1 user
Hmmm, how much? Well, back in 2007 I bought a Fed 1 in person from a camera shop for (I think) Au$200! (Although the camera guy might have thrown in a working light-meter). Anyway, about a year earlier I'd bought a Pentax *ist DL for $1000 which had got me interested in photography. So the Fed was cheap compared to a new camera at the time, but not cheap ...
Now I used the Fed, which was my first rangefinder, for maybe 10 rolls, including on the Great Wall of China before I found out that the shutters had developed a lot of pin-holes. So I posted the camera to Oleg and he fixed it. Repair and postage, say a hundred bucks?
So now I'm up to $300 for a Fed that I actually still use from time to time. After the Oleg CLA and shutter repair it seems smooth and it's as nice as a Barnack Leica to use, IMO.
Today I'm sure I could buy a Leica (or Contax) for $300, but I'm not sure if it'd be any functionally better off or with a *more classic camera* - or have a lens. Not sure what one of these would have cost in 2007 and I wasn't buying eBay cameras back then.
Anyway, the Pentax is now sitting in a box, unused and unloved despite taking over 10,000 photos. It's worth basically nothing and the Fed is worth whatever a working and CLA'd Fed is worth. But I know that the Fed will work and will now always work for me. I can't help but feel that I overspent on the Fed. But then I've spent more on dinner so it's not the end of the world and I have fond memories of the camera, where it went and what photo's I've taken with it.
Hopefully the price of Russian Rangefinders (and especially lenses!) will come down (lonely bodies will but lenses not due to u4/3 and NEX et al). Currently I have 1954 KNEB II and that needs new ribbons and a CLA. So off to Oleg again, I think, another $100+ repair and postage on top of the $50 I paid on eBay for it about 4 years ago. So that'll be a $150 bargain.
So long story short, I'll spend as much or as little as I can to actually have a working camera that I can use regardless of what some other potential camera might cost.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Both lenses and bodies depend on supply and demand with a touch of stupidity thrown in. Given the number of people prepared to wreck* FED and Zorki bodies instead of getting Oleg or one of the others to repair it I reckon that, in the long term, the prices will go up.
OTOH, ebay and BIN mean that every now and again one will appear for a pittance and be snatched up...
Regards, David
*Meaning kitchen table repairs and paint & swastika etc jobs.
Both lenses and bodies depend on supply and demand with a touch of stupidity thrown in. Given the number of people prepared to wreck* FED and Zorki bodies instead of getting Oleg or one of the others to repair it I reckon that, in the long term, the prices will go up.
OTOH, ebay and BIN mean that every now and again one will appear for a pittance and be snatched up...
Regards, David
*Meaning kitchen table repairs and paint & swastika etc jobs.