How to achieve nice grey tones?

[anorak]

Hello everyone!

Mark Steinmetz is probably my favorite photographer and while looking at his books (always amazing, btw) I was wondering what kind of chemistry he uses to achieve such nice grey tones. I know he uses a Fuji 6x9 with tri-x, but I'd love to know what's developer and process.

Here some exemples: http://www.marksteinmetz.net/photographs.php?collection=southcentral

Any suggestions?

 

[zauhar]

I agree on the beauty of his tones.

RFFer charJohnCarter is one who achieves beautiful tones comparable to Steinmetz. He is using HC110H with minimal agitation, his film of choice is Tmax 100 rated at 50 (private message). I have been using HC110B with very light agitation, and am generally happy with the results, but I am always using Tri-X, and I am not sure it will support that excellent tonality.

Randy

 

[mfogiel]

There is nothing magic in this tonality - it simply looks like a well exposed medium format film, developed without any particular effect in mind. Start with Tri X or HP5+ at EI 200-250 developed in D76, HC 110 or even Rodinal. Make sure, you have a big negative to start with.

 

[gns]

I love his work, too (have a couple of his books), but agree with mfogiel. I would just go with an old standby Tri-X in D76 (1:1). For open sunlight, rate at 200 and dev for 7-8 minutes at 68F. Here is one of my examples with this on 6 x 7 format...

 

[shortstop]

There is nothing magic in this tonality - it simply looks like a well exposed medium format film, developed without any particular effect in mind. Start with Tri X or HP5+ at EI 200-250 developed in D76, HC 110 or even Rodinal. Make sure, you have a big negative to start with.

Hi mfogiel, I use Rodinal. Do you think can obtain similar greys with it?

 

[zauhar]

Here is a thread from a while back discussing john Carter's development protocols :

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100287

Came up in another thread

 

[Ko.Fe.]

If you are looking at the picture on the net and it is looking good at your screen you might want to realize what where are scanning and digital PP as well, not only right exposure and developing...

 

[peterm1]

I am a not a film shooter any longer. Instead I shoot digital. So this is more in the nature of an aside for those who are like me. I find that in my monochrome work I get better results (a more traditional look) if I turn the contrast back in post processing. Although some classic photos (thinking Ansell Adams) make a point of dramatic tones many classic photos (at least the ones I like) have relatively low contrast (think images from a classic 1950s Summicron for Leica / 35mm shooters). I always add a touch of silver tone in post processing too. This adds a nice gentle tone to the final image.

AN EXAMPLE

Morning coffee by yoyomaoz, on Flickr

 

[Jan Pedersen]

Splendid image, so many layers and great tone. Looks like FP4+ with a little APX100 in the blend.

 

[Athiril]

I was recently quite happen with the tonality of Retro 80S in Rodinal 1:250 1 hour stand.

This is in 35mm, rated at EI 64 (Though just pointed and shot with in camera meter - AE-1)

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

I would just use d-76 or ID-11 with tri-x and that's that. Simple pimple. Not rodinal and not tmax.

Maybe experiment with a yellow filter, depending on your lens?

 

[michaelwj]

I always add a touch of silver tone in post processing too. This adds a nice gentle tone to the final image.

Hi Peter, fantastic subtle image, can you elaborate with what you mean by "silver tone in post processing"?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[charjohncarter]

I agree on the beauty of his tones.

RFFer charJohnCarter is one who achieves beautiful tones comparable to Steinmetz. He is using HC110H with minimal agitation, his film of choice is Tmax 100 rated at 50 (private message). I have been using HC110B with very light agitation, and am generally happy with the results, but I am always using Tri-X, and I am not sure it will support that excellent tonality.

Randy

Thanks, I do a similar process with TriX, but I'm completely convinced that if you spend time tweaking your process you can achieve any tonal relationship you want.

This is a TriX negative developed my way after many :bang:, this is one with an extreme range of stops. Not putting this up because it is a geat photo. In fact, it is 35mm, but it shows what you can do if you decide what you want and then :bang:, until you get it (sunny day at noon, in LA):

 

[Georgiy Romanov]

Kodak 5222 (DoubleX) produces tons of gray in D76 🙂

 

[peterm1]

Hi Peter, fantastic subtle image, can you elaborate with what you mean by "silver tone in post processing"?

Cheers,
Michael

Hi Michael and thanks. I have had a few digital photographers comment to me that they do something the same. There is a risk with monochrome work in digital media that the image can turn out a touch too blue in tone in the final result. In Nik Silver Efex software there is a slider which allows you to tone the resulting monochrome image. One such tone is called silver tone but various colours can be used as the basis for the toning from blues to yellows etc. If you over do it with this particular effect, the image comes out having a sepia tone. But of course that's not what you want - you need just enough that its not really all that noticeable unless you know what you are looking for. Enough to offset the tendency for the digital monochrome to look a little bluish.

Here is another image using this technique. The slight toning is more obvious than in my other image posted here. I do believe that similar effects can be created in analogue photography by adding certain chemicals.

New clothes by yoyomaoz, on Flickr

 

[mfogiel]

@shortstop

Certainly you can get great tones from Rodinal. As a hint, Michael Kenna usually shoots Tri X and develops in D76, but when he runs out of it, he substitutes with Rodinal.
The key, is to establish a true EI. For strong sunlight with hard shadows, make a test between EI 100-200, for flat light, try 200-320, develop shorter in the first case and longer in the second. My preferred Rodinal dilution is 1+50. Agitate briefly once a minute.

 

[brbo]

Recently I exposed TMax 400 at iso1250. I found a bottle with a label saying "Xtol 1:1 2013.12". I've totally forgotten about Xtol since I "discovered" Rodinal.

I expected nothing good from a mixed and diluted, more than a year old Xtol, but this is what came out:





(500cm, 2.8/80, proxar 0.5)

 

[shortstop]

@shortstop Certainly you can get great tones from Rodinal. As a hint, Michael Kenna usually shoots Tri X and develops in D76, but when he runs out of it, he substitutes with Rodinal. The key, is to establish a true EI. For strong sunlight with hard shadows, make a test between EI 100-200, for flat light, try 200-320, develop shorter in the first case and longer in the second. My preferred Rodinal dilution is 1+50. Agitate briefly once a minute.

In other words you say: Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights or do an N-1,following zone system. Isn't it?
I'm trying now panF in rodinal. First results (following massive development chart 11 min 1+50) a bit underdeveloped. Need 3,5-5 grade paper for a decent print.
I think to do an increment of 20-35% next time.
I think also that Rodinal gives an impression of sharpness other developer don't, but grain and contrast are a bit excessive (grain excessive with 400 not with 50); may be I'll try the mixing hc-110/rodinal in the future, following carter indications.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Highway 61]

The richest greyscale will be provided by a digital sensor (were it from a RVB sensor or a monochrom one) on a properly exposed shot. Just because of the sensors linear response to light.

There, you will get a flat, desperately flat image.

What gives character to a B&W photograph is how the photographer decides to shift the blacks, the greys and the whites, on top of what the (film, developer) couple may produce by itself.

If you want to have a very wide grey tones palette, use a basic digital camera, open the file in PS, and desaturate. Then you will see if this photo "talks" to you, or not. 😉

 

[michaelwj]

Thanks Peter, a nice trick indeed! To get rid of the occasional blue cast with printing, I usually go full on with sepia, but I'll give this a try.
Michael