keechoon
Member
Hi all,
I had gotten my hands on a welta weltur 6x4.5 folder and I'm unsure how does the 2 red window work when advancing the roll.
The windows is inline with the number for 6x9 on the backing paper. My first roll ended with 8 shots as I stopped advancing when the number reaches the first window on the left. How do I advance to get 16 frames in this case?
And with different brand of film having different indicators on the paper, is there a right method to advance correctly without overlapping frames?
Thanks!
I had gotten my hands on a welta weltur 6x4.5 folder and I'm unsure how does the 2 red window work when advancing the roll.
The windows is inline with the number for 6x9 on the backing paper. My first roll ended with 8 shots as I stopped advancing when the number reaches the first window on the left. How do I advance to get 16 frames in this case?
And with different brand of film having different indicators on the paper, is there a right method to advance correctly without overlapping frames?
Thanks!
kuzano
Veteran
Stop number once at each window....
Stop number once at each window....
It sounds to me like you actually have a 6X9 camera, shooting dual format. If so, there is a removable mask in the camera for 645. Usually these masks are long gone, disallowing the ability for the camera to frame 645, and only shoot 6X9. Without the mask (645 hole), the camera is not complete for shooting 645. With it, you can shoot both formats, stopping each number only at the first ruby window for 6x9, (mask out of camera) and once at each window for 16 images at 645 (mask in camera)
Since 645 is half of 6x9, you use the 6X9 numbers and stop once at each window. So, you shoot 16 times to get through the roll. However, you never see the numbers from 9 through 16 using the 6X9 numbering line. You just see 1 twice, 2 twice, 3 twice etc. This is typical with most 6X9/645 dual format cameras. The Bessa I and the Bessa RF both work this way, but only with the internal mask.
The camera is actually a 6X9 shooting dual format, with 645 as the second format, I suspect.
Now the critical question. Do you have the removable 645 mask inside the camera.
You use the mask and stop the number at each window.
You take out the mask and you only roll each number to the first window. The opening without the mask in the camera should be a 6X9 frame.
Does this sound right regarding the makeup of the camera?
Is the camera longish, like a 6X9, or a short squarish body. Is there a removable mask with a 645 opening inside the camera?
Welta Welturs came in two dual formats... 6x6 and 6x4.5 where the ruby windows were not in line with each other (uses a mask)
and 6X9 and 6X4.5 where the ruby windows were in line, and the body was longish.
Stop number once at each window....
It sounds to me like you actually have a 6X9 camera, shooting dual format. If so, there is a removable mask in the camera for 645. Usually these masks are long gone, disallowing the ability for the camera to frame 645, and only shoot 6X9. Without the mask (645 hole), the camera is not complete for shooting 645. With it, you can shoot both formats, stopping each number only at the first ruby window for 6x9, (mask out of camera) and once at each window for 16 images at 645 (mask in camera)
Since 645 is half of 6x9, you use the 6X9 numbers and stop once at each window. So, you shoot 16 times to get through the roll. However, you never see the numbers from 9 through 16 using the 6X9 numbering line. You just see 1 twice, 2 twice, 3 twice etc. This is typical with most 6X9/645 dual format cameras. The Bessa I and the Bessa RF both work this way, but only with the internal mask.
The camera is actually a 6X9 shooting dual format, with 645 as the second format, I suspect.
Now the critical question. Do you have the removable 645 mask inside the camera.
You use the mask and stop the number at each window.
You take out the mask and you only roll each number to the first window. The opening without the mask in the camera should be a 6X9 frame.
Does this sound right regarding the makeup of the camera?
Is the camera longish, like a 6X9, or a short squarish body. Is there a removable mask with a 645 opening inside the camera?
Welta Welturs came in two dual formats... 6x6 and 6x4.5 where the ruby windows were not in line with each other (uses a mask)
and 6X9 and 6X4.5 where the ruby windows were in line, and the body was longish.
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keechoon
Member
Thanks for the reply!
The camera is in 645 format and not a 6x9. Lens is 75mm.
So I have to follow the steps of getting the numbers to appear in the first n second window will do?
The camera is in 645 format and not a 6x9. Lens is 75mm.
So I have to follow the steps of getting the numbers to appear in the first n second window will do?
xwhatsit
Well-known
Ah... I may be wrong, just going on what I think I read once, so take with a grain of salt, but:
120 film was originally for 6x9 only (and 6x6?). So the backing paper numbers were printed in the 8-shot 6x9 position. When they brought out 6x4.5s, the film didn't have 16-shot 6x4.5 numbers, so they put in two red windows. You advance the film until `1' shows in the first window, fire, then advance until `1' shows in the second window, fire. Next, advance until `2' shows in the first window, rinse, repeat.
120 film was originally for 6x9 only (and 6x6?). So the backing paper numbers were printed in the 8-shot 6x9 position. When they brought out 6x4.5s, the film didn't have 16-shot 6x4.5 numbers, so they put in two red windows. You advance the film until `1' shows in the first window, fire, then advance until `1' shows in the second window, fire. Next, advance until `2' shows in the first window, rinse, repeat.
Steve M.
Veteran
You use the window on the left for one shot, then advance to the window on the right for the next.
kuzano
Veteran
Well, that's very interesting, but I'm never surprised at the new iterations that keep popping up on old folders. Also more appropriate than shooting 645 with a 105mm lens.
Thanks for that info and the other posts as well.
Yes... first image = 1 in the first window.... second image = 1 in the second window.... rinse and repeat.
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keechoon
Member
Thanks all for the information.
Yep, its a weltur in 645 format with Xenar 75mm f2.8 lens in a Compur Rapid shutter.
Here it is beside a Ikonta 521A and its bigger and much heavier compared to the 521A.
Yep, its a weltur in 645 format with Xenar 75mm f2.8 lens in a Compur Rapid shutter.
Here it is beside a Ikonta 521A and its bigger and much heavier compared to the 521A.
nosmok
Established
Are you sure it's not dual format with the other window being for 6x6? 75mm lens would cover that as well...
--nosmok
--nosmok
keechoon
Member
Nope, confirm its a 6x4.5. Had shot a roll with it and confirmed that.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Is the viewfinder in portrait orientation when you held the camera horizontally?
keechoon
Member
Yes, portrait when camera is horizontal.
There are 16 shots in the 2nd roll following the advance method described above. There are no film mask in this camera to convert from 6x6 or 6x9 to 6x4.5. Confirmed its in 645 format
John Powers
Newbie
If there is still any question whether this is dual format camera, another clue might be in the view finder. Looking at the front (lens side) of my 6x9 105mm Zeiss Jena Tessar f4.5 lens Welta Weltur the rectangular window has a slider. Pushing on the controlling pin slides a 6 x 4.5 metal frame over the 6x9 window.
John Powers
John Powers
gdmcclintock
Well-known
It sure looks like the dual format 6x6/6x4.5 model. The dual format model was sold with a removable 6x4.5 mask.
ianstamatic
Well-known
I have one that is 6x6 with 645 removable mask. It has two windows on the back. Middle window works great on 6x6. I dont have the 645 mask.
My VF has a sliding mask for 645/6x6
My VF has a sliding mask for 645/6x6
graywolf
Well-known
Just to clarify for those who did not pay attention to someone else's post that provided the same info. Back in the 1930's 120, and 620, film was not marked for 4.5x6 negatives. The camera manufactures got around that by putting two windows on the back. Move the number to the first window and shoot, then move it to the second window and shoot, then move the next number to the first window, etc.
After awhile (by WWII or so) all film makers had their 120 film marked for 4.5x6 images, and the camera makers no longer put in two windows at the bottom of the back, but only one at the top. Duo format cameras still used two windows.
After awhile (by WWII or so) all film makers had their 120 film marked for 4.5x6 images, and the camera makers no longer put in two windows at the bottom of the back, but only one at the top. Duo format cameras still used two windows.