ericzhu
Established
I used to develop trix using D76 1:1, 5 inversions every 30 seconds, is it the right way for develop trix?
bmattock
Veteran
That's fine. The important thing about agitation is to do it the same way every time.
Tri-X and D76 1+1 is an ideal combination. It is very forgiving, you should not have any problems. Just watch the temperature and time and you'll do fine.
Tri-X and D76 1+1 is an ideal combination. It is very forgiving, you should not have any problems. Just watch the temperature and time and you'll do fine.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Five inversions/30 seconds sounds a bit too active. I tend to do 3 inversions/60 sec with 5 reel tanks and 2 inversions/30 sec. with 3 reel or smaller.
My usual times for D76 1:1 and TriX @400 is 10,5 -11 min. Too much agitation does push up the contrast and can blow the highlights out.
My usual times for D76 1:1 and TriX @400 is 10,5 -11 min. Too much agitation does push up the contrast and can blow the highlights out.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I do it stock (not 1:1), 6.75 minutes, 3 inversions every 60 seconds, here, for two rolls at a time.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I do 5 inversions every 30 seconds, with D-76 1:1; but I only go for about 9 or 9.5 minutes if I have exposed at EI 400. I can see how Tri-X would be blocked up if going 10.5 or 11 minutes with this much agitation.
Nando
Well-known
I shoot Tri-X @ 200 usually. Around 10 minutes, 1:1 at 18C. Gentle, continuous inversions for the first 30 seconds. Tap twice. Then 4 gentle inversions and two taps every 60 seconds.
Honestly, I think its hard to mess up with Tri-X and D76. It is quite a forgiving combination.
Honestly, I think its hard to mess up with Tri-X and D76. It is quite a forgiving combination.
bmattock
Veteran
Everyone has their favorite. The key is consistency. Find what works for you and do that every time.
eli griggs
Well-known
It's been a long time since I've done D-76, but 5 inversions @ 30 sec. seems excessive. I use 4-5 slow, sort of twisting, rise and falling inversions at @ 1 minute, including with D-76 way back when I used it on' film for others and this has worked well with me.
Two inversions with your time seems best and as has been pointed out and I'm sure you know, getting the motion right is important. I use to try to describe my way of doing it as a 'figure 8' but that's not quite right either.
What best describes your 'method'?
Cheers
Two inversions with your time seems best and as has been pointed out and I'm sure you know, getting the motion right is important. I use to try to describe my way of doing it as a 'figure 8' but that's not quite right either.
What best describes your 'method'?
Cheers
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I shoot Tri-X @ 200 usually. Around 10 minutes, 1:1 at 18C. Gentle, continuous inversions for the first 30 seconds. Tap twice. Then 4 gentle inversions and two taps every 60 seconds.
Honestly, I think its hard to mess up with Tri-X and D76. It is quite a forgiving combination.
That shot looks pretty damned good!
Nando
Well-known
Thanks Keith. 
mh2000
Well-known
I tend to follow the directions first... and from memory, it was 5 seconds aggetation every 30 seconds... at least that is how I have always done... works out to about 2 or 3 slow inversions per 30 sec... I never experimented with anything different since I was so please the first and every time I've developed like that...
since I've been so please with Rodinal and stand developing I will probably try that next time though... since I don't have any D76 on hand at the moment.
since I've been so please with Rodinal and stand developing I will probably try that next time though... since I don't have any D76 on hand at the moment.
40oz
...
Kodak instructions say 5-7 inversions every 30 seconds. Don't know why they'd have it wrong. FWIW, I only agigtate once a minute, but can't say it's better.
From the Tri-X pdf:
"MANUAL PROCESSING
Small-Tank Processing (8- or 16-ounce tank)
With small single- or double-reel tanks, drop the loaded
film reel into the developer and attach the top to the tank.
Firmly tap the tank on the top of the work surface to
dislodge any air bubbles. Provide initial agitation of 5 to 7
inversion cycles in 5 seconds; i.e., extend your arm and
vigorously twist your wrist 180 degrees.
Then repeat this agitation procedure at 30-second
intervals for the rest of the development time."
The only thing I'd add is to rap the tank on the counter after each inversion cycle. Air bubbles on the film rarely add to the shot
Everybody has a different method, so feel free to find your own. Kodak expressly says that their times are merely starting points. I tend to adjust my exposure before adjusting my dev times or agitation methods, but that's just me. I figure exposure has more to do with the final result than whether I shake the tank or flip it 3.25 times per minute.
As has been said, keep your development consistent and you can easily establish suitable exposure. Once you have best results regarding exposure, you can play with dev times to make the most of your exposures. You won't get the best negatives if you consistently underexpose your subject, no matter how you develop. Once you can nail the exposure every time, and are happy with your dev times, you can play with agitation methods to see how they affect the final image. Worrying about agitation before exposure is putting the cart before the horse. Just be consistent.
From the Tri-X pdf:
"MANUAL PROCESSING
Small-Tank Processing (8- or 16-ounce tank)
With small single- or double-reel tanks, drop the loaded
film reel into the developer and attach the top to the tank.
Firmly tap the tank on the top of the work surface to
dislodge any air bubbles. Provide initial agitation of 5 to 7
inversion cycles in 5 seconds; i.e., extend your arm and
vigorously twist your wrist 180 degrees.
Then repeat this agitation procedure at 30-second
intervals for the rest of the development time."
The only thing I'd add is to rap the tank on the counter after each inversion cycle. Air bubbles on the film rarely add to the shot
Everybody has a different method, so feel free to find your own. Kodak expressly says that their times are merely starting points. I tend to adjust my exposure before adjusting my dev times or agitation methods, but that's just me. I figure exposure has more to do with the final result than whether I shake the tank or flip it 3.25 times per minute.
As has been said, keep your development consistent and you can easily establish suitable exposure. Once you have best results regarding exposure, you can play with dev times to make the most of your exposures. You won't get the best negatives if you consistently underexpose your subject, no matter how you develop. Once you can nail the exposure every time, and are happy with your dev times, you can play with agitation methods to see how they affect the final image. Worrying about agitation before exposure is putting the cart before the horse. Just be consistent.
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ericzhu
Established
Thanks all for sharing your ways. One more question on the definition of "inversion". Does 1 inversion means twisting tank from up to bottom or meaning from up to bottom then back to up position?
ericzhu
Established
I shoot Tri-X @ 200 usually. Around 10 minutes, 1:1 at 18C. Gentle, continuous inversions for the first 30 seconds. Tap twice. Then 4 gentle inversions and two taps every 60 seconds.
Honestly, I think its hard to mess up with Tri-X and D76. It is quite a forgiving combination.
Wonderful pictures. One more question on the definition of "inversion". Does 1 inversion means twisting tank from up to bottom or meaning from up to bottom then back to up position?
bmattock
Veteran
Good question. I never thought about it. I guess I always considered '1 inversion' to be a complete upside-down and then right-side up again. But I can see why some would consider that 2 inversions. Hehehehe.
eli griggs
Well-known
I've always done it as a complete cycle, otherwise, you could find yourself standing on your head in the dark and nobody wants that....
By-the-way, I also use firm raps to dislodge bubbles as directed, I've had to keep a small block of granite in my ABS sink to rap against :bang:(I can't stand the weak, ineffectual sounding 'thud' the plastic sink makes ) and I try to pick-up the tank each time so it's rotated about a quarter to a third from its previous resting position to vary the flow positions while agitating. If you're using a plastic lid/cap with a tap, it's easy to do, ie. 12, 4 and 8 "o'cock". If a metal lid and cap, an extra piece of tape from sealing the tank, placed on top works just as well.
Eli
By-the-way, I also use firm raps to dislodge bubbles as directed, I've had to keep a small block of granite in my ABS sink to rap against :bang:(I can't stand the weak, ineffectual sounding 'thud' the plastic sink makes ) and I try to pick-up the tank each time so it's rotated about a quarter to a third from its previous resting position to vary the flow positions while agitating. If you're using a plastic lid/cap with a tap, it's easy to do, ie. 12, 4 and 8 "o'cock". If a metal lid and cap, an extra piece of tape from sealing the tank, placed on top works just as well.
Eli
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
How NOT to agitate when developing film
How NOT to agitate when developing film
Here's a cautionary tale--
In the past I had a Kodak plastic tank, the kind supplied with strips of acetate with crinkled edges. You would roll the film, paired up with the acetate strip, and the crinkled edges provided just the right amount of space for circulation. This system actually works well, and it's easier to load than a reel. The tank also did not include a cap for the top. With this system, you couldn't do an inversion, because you'd be emptying out the developer. You had to do circular-sloshing type agitation. Anyway, the overall results were quite satisfactory.
Having gone through a period of not processing B&W film, I gave away the tank. Now I have a stainless steel tank and reels. This tank has a cap which fits securely. At first I was agitating with the slow circular-sloshing action I learned previously. But I found this creates uneven developing, in the form of stripes which correspond to the sprocket holes. Apparently each sprocket hole allows a bit of extra circulation, resulting in extra development. The steel reels apparently block the flow of developer much more than the crinkled acetate strip.
So anyhoo, inversion is definitely the way to go, if you can. The Kodak tank with crinkled acetate is also a quite functional alternative. I think you can still buy them.
How NOT to agitate when developing film
Here's a cautionary tale--
In the past I had a Kodak plastic tank, the kind supplied with strips of acetate with crinkled edges. You would roll the film, paired up with the acetate strip, and the crinkled edges provided just the right amount of space for circulation. This system actually works well, and it's easier to load than a reel. The tank also did not include a cap for the top. With this system, you couldn't do an inversion, because you'd be emptying out the developer. You had to do circular-sloshing type agitation. Anyway, the overall results were quite satisfactory.
Having gone through a period of not processing B&W film, I gave away the tank. Now I have a stainless steel tank and reels. This tank has a cap which fits securely. At first I was agitating with the slow circular-sloshing action I learned previously. But I found this creates uneven developing, in the form of stripes which correspond to the sprocket holes. Apparently each sprocket hole allows a bit of extra circulation, resulting in extra development. The steel reels apparently block the flow of developer much more than the crinkled acetate strip.
So anyhoo, inversion is definitely the way to go, if you can. The Kodak tank with crinkled acetate is also a quite functional alternative. I think you can still buy them.
bmattock
Veteran
They were called 'Kodakcraft' and you can't buy them from Kodak anymore, but you can buy clones of them for a couple dollars at FreestylePhoto.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/50120-Arista-E-Z-120-Single-Reel-Film-Developing-Tank?cat_id=1603
The clones can be inverted. You can get the old genuine article on eBay all the time, usually very cheaply - but you are correct, they cannot be inverted without spilling their contents out.
However, they are the easiest things to load ever. Far batter than plastic reels or stainless steel reels for the beginner. That's all I ever use - they work great, why use anything else?
Nando
Well-known
For me, its a complete revolution of the tank. Turn it upside down and then right side up again.
mojobebop
Well-known
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i'm wondering if the going temp. is 68 degrees.
i used to use d76, and hc110, but would alter temps often.
am rethinking since coming back to film,
and want to get a more refined approach.
(used to overexpose/overprocess for shadow detail,
however highlights would also get blown.
film used to come with processing times/data sheet as well.
i've long since lost my data.
also, on a side note. any advice for a good thermometer?
thank you for any responses