How to "do the math"- help please

morongobill

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While searching these forums, I saw an old post where the person metered the bright and dark areas of the scene and then "did the math" to come up with the proper exposure for slides.

Can someone point me to a post that describes how to do this?

I own a Gossen Digisix which I use with my Zeiss Ikon Contessa LKE and the Yashica Electro 35 GSN. When I use my manual slr's like the FM2 , I use the builtin meter.

This math thing would also help when I use my Yashica A tlr and the mf folder I have.

Thanks for helping with this, I think it will really help me!

morongobill in socal 😕
 
Meters give you the proper exposure for middle-tone grey, no matter what you point them at. So if you point them at the darkest part of a scene, they give you a setting that if you chose it, would give you medium grey instead of black. If you point the meter at the lightest part of a scene, that would do the same.

To keep this simple, let's assume Kodak Gold ISO 200 film and a preferred aperture of f8 - a nice outdoor scene.

You meter the darkest part of the scene - 1/30 @ f8.
You meter the lightest part of the scene - 1/1000 @ f8.

There are how many stops of exposure between 1/30 and 1/1000 in this equation?

1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000. There are 6 stops of latitude between the darkest point and the lightest point in your scene.

Now, you should also know the approximate latitude of your film. Kodak says that Gold 200 will capture up to 2 stops underexposure and 3 stops overexposure. That's six stops of latitude.

Therefore, you could set your camera to f8 and 1/125 or f8 and 1/250 and capture all of the light values present in the scene. No shadows should be blocked up and detail lost - no highlights should be blown out white with details similarly lost.

Now, you might have just put your meter on non-spot mode and metered the whole scene at one time - or spot metered the point you feel strongly is 'medium tone' in the scene - or used your camera's TTL meter, and you might very well have gotten the same result, and a lot faster, too.

So why bother?

Well, sometimes the difference in light values between the darkest spot in your scene and the lightest spot is more than your film can handle. Something is going to get tossed. If you shoot color slide film, you have a lot less range to work with - more like 2 or 3 stops range total. With digital, something inbetween.

So, the more you understand what the 'real' edges of your exposure are, the more you are able to INTENTIONALLY PLACE your exposure just where you want it. It won't stop you from losing shadow or blowing out highlights when the scene just contains too many stops of light value between dark and light - but it allows you to choose where you want to place it. Perhaps in a given scene, you don't mind losing the detail in the shadows to black - but you want to avoid blowing out the sky. Whatever you decide.

The other alternative is to bracket. Which also works, but of course, if you bracket by large amounts, you could end up with one slightly too hot and another slightly too cold, and nothing that's 'just right'.

I should also say that some advanced meters will do the math for you. You meter the bright and the dark spots, and it figures out what you should shoot at for an average value. You still have to decide if you want to adjust up or down for the result you want, though - it does not know if you have decided to sacrifice dark or light for any given scene where the light range exceeds the film capacity.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
excellent explanation, Bill.. that's probably the first time I've actually understood a description of the Zone System
 
JoeFriday said:
excellent explanation, Bill.. that's probably the first time I've actually understood a description of the Zone System

Thank you, but I think I am not describing the Zone System per se. I am using what I learned from R.W. Behan's excellent book "How to be Positive About the Negative." He is the one who advocated measuring in from the edges of the darkest or lightest part of a scene - because the human eye cannot reliably tell where the 'middle tone' of any given scene is. Lots of people think they can, but objective tests have shown over and over again that they can't. Not their fault, the human eye is just not made for that. Detecting a difference in tone, yes. Detecting which one is in the middle of any given tonal values, no. But detecting 'darkest' and 'lightest' is something our eyes and minds can cope with reliably.

I should have also mentioned that the digisix is not the best tool for this type of metering - you really need a spotmeter. The digisix is a fine meter - I am trying to obtain one myself, but it averages, and so is less useful for this exercise.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Thank you Bill!!!

That's exactly what I was hoping to get-- you made what I thought was calculus seem like
old fashioned arithmetic,not the NEW MATH!

I will try it out this weekend I hope.

Btw, I know I need a spotmeter for sure. I've been watching Ebay for awhile.

Thanks again for a great reply to my question.

morongobill in socal
 
bmattock,excellent explanation.

Where I can find latitude of the film?

Why is there a difference latitude film and DX code (EF)?
 
95 out of a hundred times, using a incident meter removes this headache. 89 times out of a hundred, the Sunny 16 rule and its various permutations also remove this headache.
Just measure the light itself and disregard the reflectance of the objects in the scene.
 
cralx2000 said:
bmattock,excellent explanation.

Where I can find latitude of the film?

Why is there a difference latitude film and DX code (EF)?

The film's latitude is often given in the technical data for the film from the manufacturer. Here's an example:

Kodak Bright Sun & Flash Film features excellent color accuracy and saturation and high sharpness and resolution. It also features wide exposure latitude—from two stops underexposure to three stops overexposure.

You can look on the manufacturer's website or even email them - very often they'll tell you.

However, sometimes there just is no way to find out. Then, the ony real choice you have if you really want to know the film's latitude is to shoot a roll of that film using severe bracketing - from 8 stops under to 8 stops over the indicated exposure setting. You must take the same photo of the same scene over and over again, changing the shutter speed each time. Keep a record of the shutter speed and aperture settings you use, then have the film processed. Do not pay attention to the prints if you get them - the automatic processing machine will try to adjust for your exposure errors. You have to look at the neg or the slide - preferably on a light table or with a film scanner. Then you find out just how much under and how much over you can go with that particular film under similar conditions.

In answer to your second question - latitude and DX code - as I understand it, the CAS options for DX areas 11 and 12 may be unable to give the full latitude of that film, because the maximum that can be displayed is +3 and -1: many color print films have more latitude than that, and DX just can't encode it.

Hope you find this helpful!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
VinceC said:
95 out of a hundred times, using a incident meter removes this headache. 89 times out of a hundred, the Sunny 16 rule and its various permutations also remove this headache.
Just measure the light itself and disregard the reflectance of the objects in the scene.

I agree - a good meter is often all anyone needs. However, why then does one choose their own aperture and shutter speed, when most AE cameras can do it perfectly well? To have more control over the result, yes? I see understanding and intentionally controlling your exposure as simply another way to take full control of your photography. Not necessary or even desirable under many circumstances, but when it is appropriate, it is good to know how to do it, as well as why.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
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