tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Seems to me that it would be irresponsible to encourage the OP to choose this path - particularly when we know very little about his talent level, drive, etc.
Members with a lot of experience (I 've been a newspaper reporter for two decades) are offering a perspective the OP needs to understand.
If he still wants to pursue the life of globe-trotting photo journalist, then I wish him all the luck in the world. Maybe he has the talent, etc. needed to make it.
But he needs to know what he is up against before starting down that path. I'm pretty sure that's why he asked for the advice.
Roma
Well-known
Dan,
Somehow this turned from advice to whether you should do it or not. If you decided to do it, don't let anyone talk you out of it. You have to at least give it your best for a few years and see whether you can continue or not.
Here is a link to advice to young photographers from Magnum guys.
http://blog.magnumphotos.com/2008/11/wear_good_shoes_advice_to_young_photographers.html
Best wishes to you!
Somehow this turned from advice to whether you should do it or not. If you decided to do it, don't let anyone talk you out of it. You have to at least give it your best for a few years and see whether you can continue or not.
Here is a link to advice to young photographers from Magnum guys.
http://blog.magnumphotos.com/2008/11/wear_good_shoes_advice_to_young_photographers.html
Best wishes to you!
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
lessons learned
lessons learned
Here's a few things I learned on the ground while shooting and writing down in New Orleans and areas to the south:
I humbly submit, in no particular order:
-Have a focus or idea, not just "oil spill effects"
-Follow up, follow through more. Even at the cost of sleep, follow every lead no matter how fruitful or not.
-Take more chances that could leave me stranded in a storm or a swamp.
-Take more chances that could get me arrested/fined. That is, stand up a little bit more for my 1st Amendment.
-Walk around like I belong there.
-Record everyone. With audio or on paper.
-Go out for a drink at a bar every day. Nursing one beer is a $4 investment in an hour conversation with someone who has a vested interest in the issue. I thought this was a superfluous expense until a few days ago when I realized that I made more contacts and got more intel in a few hours at a bar than any other time in NOLA.
-Have a budget specifically laid out. Beer money. Money for beans, rice, oats, yogurt, water, gatorade. Money for wifi.
-Always be writing. Putting the pen to paper makes me write. Just free-thought will lead way to a story.
-Always be thinking of story ideas. Goes back to follow up.
-Take a tent and camp for a few days.
-Shoot more film, don't be afraid to let batteries die. Being stuck with a completely mechanical Leica M4 and several of the best lenses ever made, is by no means a bad thing. It's not even a hindrance.
-Learn the local law a bit more.
-Always be shooting.
-Send blog links with every update to editors, staffers and other contacts.
Phil Forrest
lessons learned
Here's a few things I learned on the ground while shooting and writing down in New Orleans and areas to the south:
I humbly submit, in no particular order:
-Have a focus or idea, not just "oil spill effects"
-Follow up, follow through more. Even at the cost of sleep, follow every lead no matter how fruitful or not.
-Take more chances that could leave me stranded in a storm or a swamp.
-Take more chances that could get me arrested/fined. That is, stand up a little bit more for my 1st Amendment.
-Walk around like I belong there.
-Record everyone. With audio or on paper.
-Go out for a drink at a bar every day. Nursing one beer is a $4 investment in an hour conversation with someone who has a vested interest in the issue. I thought this was a superfluous expense until a few days ago when I realized that I made more contacts and got more intel in a few hours at a bar than any other time in NOLA.
-Have a budget specifically laid out. Beer money. Money for beans, rice, oats, yogurt, water, gatorade. Money for wifi.
-Always be writing. Putting the pen to paper makes me write. Just free-thought will lead way to a story.
-Always be thinking of story ideas. Goes back to follow up.
-Take a tent and camp for a few days.
-Shoot more film, don't be afraid to let batteries die. Being stuck with a completely mechanical Leica M4 and several of the best lenses ever made, is by no means a bad thing. It's not even a hindrance.
-Learn the local law a bit more.
-Always be shooting.
-Send blog links with every update to editors, staffers and other contacts.
Phil Forrest
tyrone.s
Well-known
My thoughts exactly. FWIW, it seems to me that the advice has been really honest and I wouldn't typify that as negative. Rather the adjective 'informative' comes to mind. Common sense and a good grasp on reality should probably tell the OP just how big a task this is going to be. But to dream, to aspire and to try. It will lead to something - even if that something is unexpected.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Some great advice in this thread. I was trained as a PJ and one thing I can say is that you've got to have drive and passion and just be relentless to get the images. While it's true the business end is a tough pill to swallow, I can't remember a time when PJs were rich 
. It's not about the money, or the fame. Well okay, the money and fame would be nice. For me, just seeing my photos in print is still a kick. You've got to love to tell stories with your camera and don't take no for an answer. Bang the monkey, over and over again. Get up and do it again.
How to get started? I would look around (camera in hand) where you live right now and find great images right before your eyes just waiting to be taken. Have the guts to shoot stuff others will pass on. Get involved on a personal level with your subjects. Care about them and your pictures can't help but reflect this. Don't wait for others to give you a story. Find your own.
Gregory
. It's not about the money, or the fame. Well okay, the money and fame would be nice. For me, just seeing my photos in print is still a kick. You've got to love to tell stories with your camera and don't take no for an answer. Bang the monkey, over and over again. Get up and do it again. How to get started? I would look around (camera in hand) where you live right now and find great images right before your eyes just waiting to be taken. Have the guts to shoot stuff others will pass on. Get involved on a personal level with your subjects. Care about them and your pictures can't help but reflect this. Don't wait for others to give you a story. Find your own.
Gregory
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emraphoto
Veteran
if you are very, very serious and can get past all the doom and gloom send me a message and i will offer up my experience.
jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
....if you want to go to gaza and take photos of the conflict there, you're a dime a dozen. There's so many photographers raping that scene and you'll just be another number. That is unless you're better than some of the magnum photographers that are covering it.
Aside from the negative. You can apply for individual grants if you can prove that you can carry out the task, that your goal is the same as the grant you're applying for, that you have had exhibitions/gallery shows/art shows/publications/prestige and that you're willing to chip in some of the budget yourself or make the effort to cut down the costs by doing some of the things yourself.
If you're perusing a photojournalism type documentary in a third world where there are rival sides, you can sometimes luck out and find accommodation if you're on their side (whatever side that might be). Or, you can teach English in exchange for accommodation. There's lots of families out there that would be more than happy to put you up in their home to help their children speak the international language and aid their social mobility.
Aside from the negative. You can apply for individual grants if you can prove that you can carry out the task, that your goal is the same as the grant you're applying for, that you have had exhibitions/gallery shows/art shows/publications/prestige and that you're willing to chip in some of the budget yourself or make the effort to cut down the costs by doing some of the things yourself.
If you're perusing a photojournalism type documentary in a third world where there are rival sides, you can sometimes luck out and find accommodation if you're on their side (whatever side that might be). Or, you can teach English in exchange for accommodation. There's lots of families out there that would be more than happy to put you up in their home to help their children speak the international language and aid their social mobility.
pachuco
El ****
Hey - this is a f'ng fantastic offer to you if you are serious. I incorporated this mans advice into my work flow with great results. (Thanks John!!)
Journeyman
Registered Film User
With all due respect and thanks to Weegee;
"F8 and be there."
This sums up, at least for me, the two most important skills a photojournalist needs. The laws of evolution will sort out the men from the boys.
"F8 and be there."
This sums up, at least for me, the two most important skills a photojournalist needs. The laws of evolution will sort out the men from the boys.
biakalt
Long Tran
emraphoto
Veteran
i thought it a good idea to also post some of my thoughts/experiences here. forgive me Bill for answering a question posed to you.
there are many different worlds in "photojournalism". i used to work as a press photographer and to this day still remain connected to that world although quite loosely. if you want to be a press photographer the formula is simple.
find out which school in you area is considered the best.
go there.
excel.
prepare yourself for an internship and when you get it, excel.
that should get you rolling.
for long term projects and more in depth work the formula is far more complicated. very few people who do this sort of work are on staff anywhere so forget about the "freelance" moniker. we are all freelance.
1/ start a body of work. without a complete and well executed body of work you aren't going anywhere. flip burgers, deliver papers or drive a cab while you get this done. whatever you have to do. it is a must.
some experiences. work on something close to the heart AND close to home. work on it on your way to work, your way home from work and all the time you are not working.
VERY IMPORTANT - pick something that you are willing to expand on and carve out a niche. as mentioned, the Gaza strip is well covered. i am not saying you can't do a better job but you really want to corner the market on the region/topic. carve out a niche... it is very important.
there are many different worlds in "photojournalism". i used to work as a press photographer and to this day still remain connected to that world although quite loosely. if you want to be a press photographer the formula is simple.
find out which school in you area is considered the best.
go there.
excel.
prepare yourself for an internship and when you get it, excel.
that should get you rolling.
for long term projects and more in depth work the formula is far more complicated. very few people who do this sort of work are on staff anywhere so forget about the "freelance" moniker. we are all freelance.
1/ start a body of work. without a complete and well executed body of work you aren't going anywhere. flip burgers, deliver papers or drive a cab while you get this done. whatever you have to do. it is a must.
some experiences. work on something close to the heart AND close to home. work on it on your way to work, your way home from work and all the time you are not working.
VERY IMPORTANT - pick something that you are willing to expand on and carve out a niche. as mentioned, the Gaza strip is well covered. i am not saying you can't do a better job but you really want to corner the market on the region/topic. carve out a niche... it is very important.
emraphoto
Veteran
2/ show your work. i am not talking the coffee shop at the end of the block. package up what you are doing and start getting it out there. get on google and type in "call for photography submissions". show your work. what you are doing is showing prospective supporters that you can get your work out. building lines on your CV so to speak. again this is a must, show your work.
(if you need help on how to package things up and approach people drop me aline)
this will be a constant. it will also become part of your financial model. there is no single revenue source. gallery work will become an important part of the formula as well as a very integral part of grant writing.
(if you need help on how to package things up and approach people drop me aline)
this will be a constant. it will also become part of your financial model. there is no single revenue source. gallery work will become an important part of the formula as well as a very integral part of grant writing.
emraphoto
Veteran
3/ start building your "media phone book" as soon as possible. contact info, email etc. for everyone and anyone. domestic, overseas and beyond. beg, borrow and steal this information if need be. you can start by googling "media phone book".
once you have a body of work together and presentable (website folks) start contacting (relevant) media outlets and putting yourself on there radar. keep it short and sweet. two or three lines (these people get a ton of email and will stop reading after the third line).
Hi xxx. My name is John Densky and I am a documentary photographer. I wanted to take a minute and put myself on your radar. I have been working on XXX and samples of my work can be found at www.xxx.com.
Don't hesitate to contact me should you require my services.
Regards
John Densky
emraphoto@yahoo.ca
www.galler7.com
+01 (insert international # here)
make this part of your EVERY SINGLE DAY ROUTINE. keep a log of who you have contacted and contact them again a 6 moths to a year later keeping them up to speed on what you are doing.
the photo editor crowd are all very interconnected. even if you receive no reply from someone they may have an occasion to pass your name on... "hey, i know someone working in that region. i'll email you their name and info tomorrow" sort of thing.
i cannot stress enough how big of a job this is and how important it is. your brilliance will not get you work, connections will. make sure everyone knows what you are up to and how to get in touch.
once you have a body of work together and presentable (website folks) start contacting (relevant) media outlets and putting yourself on there radar. keep it short and sweet. two or three lines (these people get a ton of email and will stop reading after the third line).
Hi xxx. My name is John Densky and I am a documentary photographer. I wanted to take a minute and put myself on your radar. I have been working on XXX and samples of my work can be found at www.xxx.com.
Don't hesitate to contact me should you require my services.
Regards
John Densky
emraphoto@yahoo.ca
www.galler7.com
+01 (insert international # here)
make this part of your EVERY SINGLE DAY ROUTINE. keep a log of who you have contacted and contact them again a 6 moths to a year later keeping them up to speed on what you are doing.
the photo editor crowd are all very interconnected. even if you receive no reply from someone they may have an occasion to pass your name on... "hey, i know someone working in that region. i'll email you their name and info tomorrow" sort of thing.
i cannot stress enough how big of a job this is and how important it is. your brilliance will not get you work, connections will. make sure everyone knows what you are up to and how to get in touch.
emraphoto
Veteran
4/ once you have a well edited and executed body of work you are ready for the award and grant circuit. if you can swing it or afford it take a grant writing class. this may be the best money you will spend.
keep one thing in mind. you are up against very tough competition. the Majoli's and Webb's of the world follow this same model. don't be discouraged by a dry first year or two. you are also getting your work in front of people (judging panels) who need to know you are out there. editors, agency folks etc.
if you are unfamiliar with grant applications DO YOURSELF A FAVOR and take a class or two. one wrong word, one word to many, one photo with incomplete caption... you are out. you don't want to spend your hard earned dough putting together a great application and have it junked due to a spelling mistake. use a courier and get signatures for deliveries.
google "awards and grants" and make your calendar. know your due dates and what is required. the first part of every year is generally a busy time with a lot of grants etc. due in the april-june corridor.
this is another very important part of the financial model. a 30,000 euro award can keep you going for a good period of time. add a few gallery shows and some magazine/media sales and you are set for a year.
keep one thing in mind. you are up against very tough competition. the Majoli's and Webb's of the world follow this same model. don't be discouraged by a dry first year or two. you are also getting your work in front of people (judging panels) who need to know you are out there. editors, agency folks etc.
if you are unfamiliar with grant applications DO YOURSELF A FAVOR and take a class or two. one wrong word, one word to many, one photo with incomplete caption... you are out. you don't want to spend your hard earned dough putting together a great application and have it junked due to a spelling mistake. use a courier and get signatures for deliveries.
google "awards and grants" and make your calendar. know your due dates and what is required. the first part of every year is generally a busy time with a lot of grants etc. due in the april-june corridor.
this is another very important part of the financial model. a 30,000 euro award can keep you going for a good period of time. add a few gallery shows and some magazine/media sales and you are set for a year.
emraphoto
Veteran
5/ all these steps above are part of the CV. you are building a resume, make no mistake about it. it may take a year or it may take three but it needs to be done.
awards/grants
shows/exhibitions
the first two things prospective supporters will look at.
awards/grants
shows/exhibitions
the first two things prospective supporters will look at.
emraphoto
Veteran
remember to focus on a niche. there is little sense in heading to Afghanistan in your first year (unless like a fella i know you are there already for other reasons) to compete with a lot of very talented and established photographers.
find a story that is either important or stands to be very important and has little attention. NGO's are a great way to off set some of the hurtles in this opening stage. even if they can provide a place to stay or an introduction to the community you wish to explore. they also can provide great references. use them but don't rely on them for the gravy.
an example is my focus on Nigeria. it is a country with global importance. it is a country on the brink (again) of civil war. it is a country with little outside press due to safety and conditions. i have spent the past three years developing the contacts and ability to work there with a degree of safety. i have also made sure EVERYONE knows i work there. i now get contacted by very large publications about my work there versus me having to contact them.
find a story that is either important or stands to be very important and has little attention. NGO's are a great way to off set some of the hurtles in this opening stage. even if they can provide a place to stay or an introduction to the community you wish to explore. they also can provide great references. use them but don't rely on them for the gravy.
an example is my focus on Nigeria. it is a country with global importance. it is a country on the brink (again) of civil war. it is a country with little outside press due to safety and conditions. i have spent the past three years developing the contacts and ability to work there with a degree of safety. i have also made sure EVERYONE knows i work there. i now get contacted by very large publications about my work there versus me having to contact them.
emraphoto
Veteran
"As I said already, quoting Yoda: Do or do not, there is no try."
believe it or not this should be your constitution.
believe it or not this should be your constitution.
dan_sutton
Member
roger hicks
"Finall, stop pissing around with degrees. If photojournalism -- as distinct from a safe reporting job on the Nowheresville Tribune -- is really important to you, you should be out there shooting by the age of 26. "
I agree. A degree to me is a path, a way of working towards something. Or at least the feeling of this. But it is not work, it is not getting me towards my goal. But in my confusion about how to proceed, this seemed to be a way to move forward. But this is certainly a lateral move, not a vertical one. Reminds me of a quote from Dazed and Confused, "as if every moment were some mere preamble to some far off future…" or something like that. Now is the time, there is no more preparation beyond what gets me there, tangibly and directly.
Phil F NM
"As far as what to do, you have to keep your portfolio current. I just finished a trip to New Orleans in an effort to cover the Gulf oil spill's effect on the area. As an independent journalist, I did not have the backing of bigger media so it was a bit more difficult to gain access. Regardless, I got about 700 decent digital photographs & a few rolls of film shot while there. It was a big learning experience and I know what mistakes not to make next time, what or how many different story threads to chase so I don't spread myself too thin."
I'd love to see what you've put together if you have a digital gallery online somewhere. Even better, I live on the gulf coast in Louisiana and I'd love to put you up on my couch and travel with you the next time you feel like heading down to grand isle, venice, etc.
victoriapio
"1. Get an honest review of your portfolio from the photo editor of the largest newspaper in La. (NOT your college instructor unless he/she has prior experience as a photo editor.) Pay him/her $100 if you need to, or buy dinner or something. You WILL be asked to improve your work. Don't forget to ask if you can shoot an a feature for them on spec.
2. Get an honest review of your portfolio from the photo editor of the largest magazine in La. Doesn't matter if what you shoot is aimed at that magazine or not, get as many photo/art editors to review your work. Again, you WILL be asked to improve your work.
3. You will need some financing, and as much as I hate to say it, credit cards are about the only option if you are not blessed with cash."
tbarker13
"luck in the world. Maybe he has the talent, etc. needed to make it.
But he needs to know what he is up against before starting down that path. I'm pretty sure that's why he asked for the advice."
Phil F NM
"-Have a focus or idea, not just "oil spill effects"
-Follow up, follow through more. Even at the cost of sleep, follow every lead no matter how fruitful or not.
-Take more chances that could leave me stranded in a storm or a swamp.
-Take more chances that could get me arrested/fined. That is, stand up a little bit more for my 1st Amendment.
-Walk around like I belong there."
emraphoto
"2/ show your work. i am not talking the coffee shop at the end of the block. package up what you are doing and start getting it out there. get on google and type in "call for photography submissions". show your work. what you are doing is showing prospective supporters that you can get your work out. building lines on your CV so to speak. again this is a must, show your work."
Emraphoto, I definitely appreciate your thoughts and words. I found two bulk loaders and about 50 film cassettes on craigslist for $20. The guy who sold them to me is a staff photographer for the Advocate, a locally owned newspaper in Baton Rouge. I've managed to make contact with him and he spoke to me about an internship. There happens to be one here in town that I am going to follow up with.
I'm confused about how to present my work. Bridge can put out a nice pdf portfolio but of course online galleries are the norm. I need to keep my blog as an online portfolio rather than the more journal style that it is now. it is as dansutton.wordpress.com if anyone is interested.
I think that I am going to buy a huge bag of rice, some potatoes and a case of ramen and will leave cheaply. All of my available money will go to film, gas and days off from work. I will be sending emails to all newspapers, magazines, and TV stations, both locally and nationally, that I live on the gulf coast and will spend all of my days off building portfolios and sending emails. I figure I'll shoot for a few hours, develop, scan, all the while forging communications.
The ideas and advice offered here has been monumental, and I appreciate all of it. thank you very much.
dan sutton
"Finall, stop pissing around with degrees. If photojournalism -- as distinct from a safe reporting job on the Nowheresville Tribune -- is really important to you, you should be out there shooting by the age of 26. "
I agree. A degree to me is a path, a way of working towards something. Or at least the feeling of this. But it is not work, it is not getting me towards my goal. But in my confusion about how to proceed, this seemed to be a way to move forward. But this is certainly a lateral move, not a vertical one. Reminds me of a quote from Dazed and Confused, "as if every moment were some mere preamble to some far off future…" or something like that. Now is the time, there is no more preparation beyond what gets me there, tangibly and directly.
Phil F NM
"As far as what to do, you have to keep your portfolio current. I just finished a trip to New Orleans in an effort to cover the Gulf oil spill's effect on the area. As an independent journalist, I did not have the backing of bigger media so it was a bit more difficult to gain access. Regardless, I got about 700 decent digital photographs & a few rolls of film shot while there. It was a big learning experience and I know what mistakes not to make next time, what or how many different story threads to chase so I don't spread myself too thin."
I'd love to see what you've put together if you have a digital gallery online somewhere. Even better, I live on the gulf coast in Louisiana and I'd love to put you up on my couch and travel with you the next time you feel like heading down to grand isle, venice, etc.
victoriapio
"1. Get an honest review of your portfolio from the photo editor of the largest newspaper in La. (NOT your college instructor unless he/she has prior experience as a photo editor.) Pay him/her $100 if you need to, or buy dinner or something. You WILL be asked to improve your work. Don't forget to ask if you can shoot an a feature for them on spec.
2. Get an honest review of your portfolio from the photo editor of the largest magazine in La. Doesn't matter if what you shoot is aimed at that magazine or not, get as many photo/art editors to review your work. Again, you WILL be asked to improve your work.
3. You will need some financing, and as much as I hate to say it, credit cards are about the only option if you are not blessed with cash."
tbarker13
"luck in the world. Maybe he has the talent, etc. needed to make it.
But he needs to know what he is up against before starting down that path. I'm pretty sure that's why he asked for the advice."
Phil F NM
"-Have a focus or idea, not just "oil spill effects"
-Follow up, follow through more. Even at the cost of sleep, follow every lead no matter how fruitful or not.
-Take more chances that could leave me stranded in a storm or a swamp.
-Take more chances that could get me arrested/fined. That is, stand up a little bit more for my 1st Amendment.
-Walk around like I belong there."
emraphoto
"2/ show your work. i am not talking the coffee shop at the end of the block. package up what you are doing and start getting it out there. get on google and type in "call for photography submissions". show your work. what you are doing is showing prospective supporters that you can get your work out. building lines on your CV so to speak. again this is a must, show your work."
Emraphoto, I definitely appreciate your thoughts and words. I found two bulk loaders and about 50 film cassettes on craigslist for $20. The guy who sold them to me is a staff photographer for the Advocate, a locally owned newspaper in Baton Rouge. I've managed to make contact with him and he spoke to me about an internship. There happens to be one here in town that I am going to follow up with.
I'm confused about how to present my work. Bridge can put out a nice pdf portfolio but of course online galleries are the norm. I need to keep my blog as an online portfolio rather than the more journal style that it is now. it is as dansutton.wordpress.com if anyone is interested.
I think that I am going to buy a huge bag of rice, some potatoes and a case of ramen and will leave cheaply. All of my available money will go to film, gas and days off from work. I will be sending emails to all newspapers, magazines, and TV stations, both locally and nationally, that I live on the gulf coast and will spend all of my days off building portfolios and sending emails. I figure I'll shoot for a few hours, develop, scan, all the while forging communications.
The ideas and advice offered here has been monumental, and I appreciate all of it. thank you very much.
dan sutton
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emraphoto
Veteran
hi Dan.
i believe a decent website will be the most effective investment you will make. it doesn't have to be flashy... go with a template site.
as far as "showing your work". i mean galleries primarily. in the beginning it will be group shows as getting an established gallery to commit to a solo show is a major endeavor.
please keep in mind that i am not a newspaper photographer. the path i posted (and follow) is more geared towards magazine, gallery and long term documentary work.
i believe a decent website will be the most effective investment you will make. it doesn't have to be flashy... go with a template site.
as far as "showing your work". i mean galleries primarily. in the beginning it will be group shows as getting an established gallery to commit to a solo show is a major endeavor.
please keep in mind that i am not a newspaper photographer. the path i posted (and follow) is more geared towards magazine, gallery and long term documentary work.
Andy Kibber
Well-known
Great responses in this thread. It's been an interesting read. I'm glad my silly first reply didn't set the tone!