how to improve?

[remrf]

There is nothing like shooting film and very shortly after looking at the images to improve one's eye and technical skills.

However I have been reminded recently of a truth I learned while playing and recording music. On many occasions I would record my performance and on immediate playback hear some fault that would seemingly negate the effort. But if I waited a few days and then listened again I would find that the fault was not as magnified as I originally thought (if indeed the fault existed at all). I have found this to be true in photography as well. I usually like very few of my shots when first viewed. Given a few days though and at least a few more are discovered to have merit not seen previously.

So, review some of your past work not seen for a while. I think you might find new gems amid the shots you did not think made the grade. If nothing else you can see the difference in your eye and technique from then to now.

I give myself assignments to improve my shooting. I have two going at present requiring entirely different skill sets. Neither involve rangefinder cameras so I doubt they will be posted here.

 

[Joerg]

Hi,

another approach would be what do you want to convey with your pics?
Emotions?
Documentary?
Art?



Then go and try to get this reaction from a photograph. What ver it takes. Personally I would be most honored if any of my pics would trigger a emotinal response, but I am far from it ...

Ciao

Joerg

 

[rpsawin]

i have been thinking of ways to try to improve my photography

joe

Joe,

What aspect of your photography...shooting...processing...printing? I have been a bit frustrated with my own work and realized part of my frustration came from my approach. Shooting, processing and printing are phases of one act. By breaking up the workflow and waiting between phases I loose something. The end result, the print, is often not what I remember as the image I took. Ansel Adams refers to this as image management. I find I do my best work when the workflow is not chopped up and there is minimal time lags between the various phases.

In other words an ideal session would be to shoot and process one day, print the next and then critically review the results. I find I learn the most and acheive the deepest sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when I can see my end result mirrors the image that I initially saw or I can see what I need to do differently.

Anyway, fwiw...

Bob

 

[pvdhaar]

Lots of good advice and interesting view points here.

Here's my 2ct worth, and just this once I'll share it for free 😉

I've had phases where I became dissatisfied with my own photography too, and it basically boils down to this:

The web makes me see way too many great pictures by others. I can't exactly pinpoint my feelings about them, but it's a mix of some envy, challenge, and lots of insecurity; 'I should have made that picture.. I have all this gear, but still..'

Consequence of this; my photography morphs from a means into a goal. I look at the world through a peephole, and evaluate the view according to its competitive aspects. The end result is a downward spiral that robs me of any joy in what I'm doing..

Best thing for me at that time is to leave the camera home for a couple of days, forget about doing photography, and stay off the web. Just look at the world the way it is, and enjoy it for its own sake. Only when I notice that I've become at ease without a camera, it's time to pick one up again. Preferably one with full automation, and then start with mere snaps, nothing serious. Really refreshing and often brings truely rewarding results..

 

[varjag]

Look through your contact sheets or negs and find shots that just 'jump out' on you, even with cursory glance. Now, think hard about why they look good, and try to make more shots like that.

 

[MacDaddy]

Joe:
When I got back into photography 4 years ago after a 25 year gap, I took a local college course and we did weekly assignments—not on a "topic" but on technique. Each week we would be required to take LOTS of photos using some aspect of photography—depth of field, exposure (try to get a good shot when limited to ONE exposure for a week, regardless of time of day or weather!), type of film (color, B & W or film speed, or manufacturer), a single lens, composition, etc.
IF we do an online tutorial series, perhaps we could look at doing something like this and then ask for volunteers among our more experienced members to PRIVATELY and positively critique a limited number of submitted photos. (I think public exposure might kill the spirits of some of us newbies too quickly)
Maybe set up a private gallery for this and limit the number of submitted photos to a preset number per assignment so as not to overwhelm the servers. Also, REQUIRE anyone participating to be a paid member, as this will certainly demand more from everyone and everything involved. My 2 cents worth, and YMMV.

 

[nomade]

I'm trying to improve, using a book containing exercises, i think it's know, the photographic eye, learn how to see with a camera for O'Brien, it's helping.

 

[nico]

Looking at others' (pro or not) work surely helps improving , but I'd like to have someone, more expert than me, who tells me what's wrong or right in the shots I take.
Maybe Rob's idea is a little bit complicated for the forum ( in general I mean, not Rff in particular) but something like that would work fine for me ...

 

[MacDaddy]

An article I read awhile ago about a well-known photojournalist said he had used ONE camera, lens and film type for 40 years to do his award-winning work. I was privileged to have a series of conversations with the late Bruce Applebaum, a well-known NY photographer and member of this forum, just before his death earlier this year and his encouragement to me trying to get back into film and use a rangefinder was to take the time to become "one with the camera and a single lens." Having several of his photos to attest to his prowess with a camera, maybe we can simplify this whole concept by doing just that.
Bruce felt that by not being distracted by what film to use when, what lens to put on the camera and what camera to use was the most effective way to force us as photographers to learn exposure, composition and the fine art of photography. And he told me to shoot at LEAST 100 shots a week, develop all of them and then look at what I had done. Finally, he got me into the habit of taking a small spiral notebook with me and recording the data about each shot to track what happened. I know that is a pain in the backside, but now that I've started doing it again, I expect to be able to track my progress as a photographer better and also know what I did that did and didn't work on a given shot. YMMV.

 

[Rafael]

i'm reminded of the saying, ' a man can make the same mistake for years and call it experience'.?

Good point. For this reason, I think that a key to improving one's photography is to take the time to write detailed notes about the photographs you take. Doing so certainly slows you down. And the lazy me usually resists taking notes. However, I think that taking notes is essential if you hope to reproduce what you like about your photography and improve whatever it is that you don't like. keeping detailed notes is the best way I know of to really understand your own style of photography.

A second idea for improving your photography - one which several contributors to this thread clearly disagree with me on and one which is certainly not original - is to look through as many great photographs as you can. Personally, I find that I get more out of viewing prints in galleries than in books. I find that I study photographs more when they are hanging on the wall. When they are in a book, it is too easy to quickly flip the page. What is more, the plates in books rarely stack up against the prints hanging on the walls. But that said, I don't often have the time to visit the galleries. And I do try to spend some regular time with books of photography.

Apart from these two ideas, I agree with all the others who have argued for the importance of taking lots and lots of photographs.

 

[jan normandale]

Take all your photos and put them on your screen or sorting table. Look at them and discard all the ones that are not keepers. Do this with all your photographs you take over a few weeks. Then take all the saved keepers and put them on your screen or sorting table and discard the ones that are not good enough to remain keepers.

This process will quickly focus your eye on what is a good photograph and what is not. I don’t believe that I need more than 100 photos to show what I am about. This may change and the 100 may change but that is all you need at that moment.
You can do all the usual stuff like reading "how to books", looking at Ansel Adams and other famous photographers but throwing stuff out really focuses you on what is good and what is not. This isn’t the final or only answer but it is a significant part of the critical process.

That reminds me I need to visit my gallery and delete some more shots er I mean photographs. ;- )

 

[Rich Silfver]

I ended up in a real creative rut about 3-4 years ago.
I felt that I was 'stuck' in my photography and that I ended up taking variations on the same scenes over and over again.

I came to the conclusion that most of my issues were related to that I approached photography in the same way: walking around, handheld small camera, street photography, the occasional candid portrait. That was about the extent to how I applied myself - and what images I captured.

Now, the 'solution' for a problem like that is likely to be different for everyone but what I did was to get a camera that was much different than the 35mm cameras I had used for so long. I got a Hasselblad 500C/M.

I loved using this camera. It forced me to work in a way that was completely different. Slower. Often on a tripod. And much more attention to every shot (using 120 film I was only getting 12 shots a roll..).

It was also exciting to see a new format. Square. Bigger negatives. Much better perceived grey scales and details.

After a year or so I went back to 35mm cameras and streetphotography - but now with the addition of the 'blad and the kind of photography it lends it to.

If a new camera and format is not the solution maybe it's post-processing.
Get a darkroom - print.
Get a later version of photoshop and REALLY learn it.
Dabble in polaroid transfers.
Print on textured art paper.
Plan for an exhibit.

 

[back alley]

i didn't forget this question...

i want to sum up a bit first, please excuse me if i have over simplified your ideas.

lots of practice
have assignments
do the opposite of normal (for you)
develop a critical eye
print more
decide what you are after
keep the gear simple
establish a focus for each photo outing
change your perspective
go outside of photography, look at architecture for example
study lighting in movies
change in thinking
push your comfort zone
look for shooting opportunities
review past work
decrease down time between shooting and reviewing your photos
walk away from your cameras (for awhile only)
try different techniques
look at other's work
take notes
keep things simple

lots of ideas here and i thank you all very much.

i asked this question originally, not because i am experiencing any great loss of faith or confidence, but to see what others do when they want to improve. this may appear simple but i don't honestly think many of us look to improve our photography. don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to be nasty. i'm meaning that many do not actively seek out ways to improve.

take me for example. i don't set things in motion to become a better photographer. i buy/trade/sell lots of gear to be a better collector and have a more varied shooting experience but we all know that does little to improve my photography.
when i think about improving i invariably think about what's popular. what kind of shots get the comments and the wows.
women, pretty women, mostly unclad women are popular.
simple graphic shots that have that wow impact are popular.
i can recognize popular.
i think i can recognize good.
but they don't seem to be the kind of shots i take.
i like those 'lots of people in a small crowded place' kind of shots.
with lots to look at.
these don't seem to be very popular or at least they attract few comments.
what do i do about that?
as far as gear goes, i know my gear as well as i am ever going to. i like gear but do not worship at it's alter.
i generally do keep things simple but i wonder if i need to study my 'style' and see if that is part of the problem. maybe i need to change that.

anyway, i'm not sure what i'm gonna do with all these ideas just yet.
joe

 

[sf]

FrankS has it right. Just going out and taking pictures. Of course, just doing more of the same is unlikely to push you into growth.

For me, getting better required going out and changing my ways. I changed my subject matter, camera, style of shooting, time of day, etc. Went from shooting daytime landscapes in the country to shooting street stuff. Got rid of my SLRs and bought an RF.

Now, since i am unwilling to let the RF go, I have only one reasonable means of forcing myself into growth, and that's to go out and either take more pictures and attack the aspects of my methods that fail, or to go out and approach photography a different way.

Of course, all this depends on what you are trying to fix or perfect. Is it technical skill or artistry that you seek to develop? Sometimes, lacking artistic talent, a lacking eye for a good shot, or other failure can be mistaken for lacking technical skill. And vice versa.

I consider the possibility of buying a little p&s digital to give myself another possible angle on shooting. More spontaneous. I guess, to me, it just seems that change is the most effective way to inspire or force growth.

 

[kshapero]

An internet RFF photo class is a good idea. Assignments can force one to confront and learn concepts one avoids because of a lack of understanding of it.

The sooner the better. An open forum class of some sort.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

i can recognize popular.
i think i can recognize good.
but they don't seem to be the kind of shots i take.
i like those 'lots of people in a small crowded place' kind of shots.
with lots to look at.
these don't seem to be very popular or at least they attract few comments.
what do i do about that?

Take the photographs you want. Not the photographs other people want.

After a while, maybe a long while, people will stop telling you about the pretty little church in a nearby town and realise that you take photographs of derelict rat-infested buildings. Or whatever.

Sadly many people think that cameras are for summer months only, big smiles from family and friends looking into the camera, a blue sky, and a pretty background. Idiots.

If you are worried (and I think you may be) that your photos of 'lots of people in a small crowded place' don't attract comments then make the pictures edgier. You'll get comments, although not popularity from the majority. Their loss.

You are not the court jester who has to amuse and please everybody to order.

 

[jlw]

I had an unpleasantly life-changing epiphany while attending a photo workshop a few months ago. It made me realize that once you've grasped the basics of aesthetics and technique, what it takes to progress further doesn't have anything to do with how you shoot or what you shoot or how much you shoot.

What it takes is creating opportunities to make the kinds of pictures you want to make. And this skill of creating opportunities doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the skills involved in photography!

Very oversimplified example: If your lifelong goal is to photograph elephants in the wild, you aren't going to accomplish a damn thing sitting on your back porch in Schenectady. You have to go where the elephants are.


We've all had the experience of seeing a published, exhibited or otherwise celebrated picture and thinking (and/or posting) "Strictly as a photograph, this is nothing special." So why is that picture celebrated when our own technically superior efforts are not? It's because that photographer created the opportunity to make a special picture: went on the trip, made the contact, rented the location, talked to the guy, built the apparatus, spent the money, or whatever it took.

Why was this such an unpleasant realization for me? It was because I realized that to make the kinds of pictures I really want to make -- the inexplicable ones I see in my head -- I'd have to lead a somewhat different kind of life (probably one involving moving to New York and starving) and become a somewhat different type of person (the energetic, self-promoting type of photographer that I usually detest as a pushy jerk.)

And I realized that my commitment level isn't high enough to make me want to pay that price. There's a fundamental conflict between the kind of photographer I want to be and the kind of person I'm willing to be.


But that's just me; your photographic aspirations may not be as conflicted. Anyway, that's my advice on how to improve: Ask yourself, "What conditions would need to exist for me to take the best photographs I could possibly take?" Then: "What would I need to do to create those conditions?" And there's your answer. Making it happen... that's the tough part.

 

[schmoozit]

Why was this such an unpleasant realization for me? It was because I realized that to make the kinds of pictures I really want to make -- the inexplicable ones I see in my head -- I'd have to lead a somewhat different kind of life (probably one involving moving to New York and starving) and become a somewhat different type of person (the energetic, self-promoting type of photographer that I usually detest as a pushy jerk.)

And I realized that my commitment level isn't high enough to make me want to pay that price. There's a fundamental conflict between the kind of photographer I want to be and the kind of person I'm willing to be.

Part of accomplishing what you want to is also finding a way around the obstacles. Congrats to you for having the insight to know the lifestyle you would likely be pushed into to accomplish your dream isn't one you're willing to sell out to; but the next step might not be to change course, but to rather make a way where there wasn't one. It might not be impossible, though it might be much different than what others have experienced.

 

[wlewisiii]

You are not the court jester who has to amuse and please everybody to order.

If nothing else from this thread, this line you need to take to heart. It is the single hardest thing that any photographer needs to learn; and, yes, it usually is learned the hard way.

Shoot. Gazillions of frames if need be. Eventually you will find what you like, though it may be manure to everyone else. So? It's like your thread about which cameras to use or, more recently, which lenses to use. Only you can answer these questions and only based on what you actually like to do. I really do like longer lenses than at least 90% of the posters here. As a result, I give a certain 135/3.5 a regular workout. I know, intellectually at least, that there are times and places where I need a wider lens than the 2 foot zoom will get me; however that still doesn't keep me from shooting a 50 99% of the time. I have a funny feeling that I'm going to see a boat load of 28mm shots out of a CL in the relativly near future; at least, I hope so.

Once again I'm going to tell you - what do _you_ like? Don't give a rat's bum about _anyone_ else's preferences. Your only real world hope is to do what you enjoy.

To give an OT example, there was a computer engineer, no, pure simple geek. He worked for HP. He watched what the company was doing and tried to think about what he wanted to make instead. Once he knew what he wanted to do, he asked to be allowed to build it. He was told, in no uncertain terms, to STFU. He told his best buddy who was a freaking marketing genious who then set them on the road... yes, this is the tale of the two Steves (Jobs and Woz). But Jobs would not be where he is today if one other guy hadn't wanted simply to build the computer he wanted to use. Shoot the photographs you want to see. Perhaps you'll meet your Jobs; more likely not. But in the end, you'll still be a happier film burner.

I hope this blather is of some help.

William

 

[varjag]

Joe, Gary Winogrand was mostly shooting "lots of people in crowded places" as well, and many people still fail to see aesthetics in his work.

You at least have your style, and only need to perfect it. Shoot more, tons more, and then some. Review your work; any of methods suggested above would be helpful. Great part about shooting volumes is that you bound to get unexpected good pictures, it's a matter of statistics. When you have some winners at hand they could provide you insight as to which aspect of your style you would like to improve or emphasize.