Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I made a video today showing how to mix the TF-4 Alkaline Rapid Fixer from Photographers Formulary.
This fixer works like any other Ammonium Thiosulfate Rapid Fix, except that it has an Alkaline Ph, unlike most fixers, which are acidic. It is claimed that it washes out of film and paper faster than acid fixers, but its main advantage is that is can be used with staining developers, like PMK and Pyrocat. Acid fixers reduce the intensity of the image stain from Pyro-based developers.
The reason for making a tutorial for mixing TF-4 is that is comes as a concentrate in which all of the solid chemicals that make up the formula are not fully dissolved, and it is important to mix it correctly to ensure that all of it is dissolved in the final working-strength solution.
Here's the link to the video on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/KH7fadqkHCQ
This fixer works like any other Ammonium Thiosulfate Rapid Fix, except that it has an Alkaline Ph, unlike most fixers, which are acidic. It is claimed that it washes out of film and paper faster than acid fixers, but its main advantage is that is can be used with staining developers, like PMK and Pyrocat. Acid fixers reduce the intensity of the image stain from Pyro-based developers.
The reason for making a tutorial for mixing TF-4 is that is comes as a concentrate in which all of the solid chemicals that make up the formula are not fully dissolved, and it is important to mix it correctly to ensure that all of it is dissolved in the final working-strength solution.
Here's the link to the video on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/KH7fadqkHCQ
emraphoto
Veteran
Thanx Chris, quite interesting
roscoetuff
Well-known
Chris: I'm curious whether anyone understands (probably you) the difference between TF4 and TF5. I've been using TF5... dunno... 'cause it's "new" and all. Works fine. I also use a Stop Bath (and they say you can get away with water! Not me)... and I'm thinking of adding a HypoClear / Permawash type bath after the Fix... just because I've heard some say it shortens the final rinse with less water. And less water waste is a good thing. Good for you for putting a video out on all those "stupid" other chems we use. No one ELSE does this. Thank you!!! and keep loving your Mamiya 6 RF.... send it my way if you ever get tired of it!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Both TF4 and TF5 are supposed to give shorter wash times without using hypo-clear, so you shouldn't need it. That said, you need to stop using stop bath. An acid stop bath will damage the alkaline fixer, making it much less effective at fixing film. It is designed to work with a water rinse between developer and fix.
I have never used stop bath, ever, in the 27 years I have been developing film. It is not necessary with modern films, and with alkaline fixers it is not good.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Hmmm. I'm using PhotoFormulary's TS-4 Stop Bath as a follow to my XTOL developer. I'd dropped the Stop Bath for a while, and then got guilted back into reading what folks write... as a way to STOP!!! the developer. Fast.
So what you're saying... can't say that I've seen any damage... though the film does curl edge-to-edge a bit. Could this be what you're talking about? I'd be happy to drop the Stop Bath (again).
I sort of assumed TS-4 was compatible with TF4/5. Didn't ask, but I should.
Second follow-up is this: By modern films... do you mean ALL contemporary films produced, or simply T-Grain, Crystal Grain (Delta) or whatever.... or just ALL?
Thanks!
So what you're saying... can't say that I've seen any damage... though the film does curl edge-to-edge a bit. Could this be what you're talking about? I'd be happy to drop the Stop Bath (again).
I sort of assumed TS-4 was compatible with TF4/5. Didn't ask, but I should.
Second follow-up is this: By modern films... do you mean ALL contemporary films produced, or simply T-Grain, Crystal Grain (Delta) or whatever.... or just ALL?
Thanks!
roscoetuff
Well-known
Whoops! Let me add this from PhotoFormulary on TF5 - 'cause it is slightly different... which I don't mean to imply right or wrong, but simply to document a difference - if there is one relative to TF4. I don't know beans about chemistry.... but read that TF4 goes to Alkaline from Acid while TF5 simply moves things neutral. Does that change anything? Dunno 'cause TS-4 doesn't offer a chem safety sheet (unless it's on a separate page as PhotoFormulary often does - I haven't checked). TF5 doc says to use a water bath OR an acid stop bath. Are they wrong then?
* It is a near neutral fix that changes the pH of the film or paper from alkaline to near neutral, unlike TF4 in which the film or paper stays at an alkaline pH value.
No image bleaching. All conventional fixers act as reducers. This means that the longer the material is left in the fixer, the more image silver is destroyed. This can only have bad effects on the image, whether it is a print or a negative. Conventional sodium thiosulfate (rapid) fixers suffer from this defect especially. The problem is eliminated in TF-5, which may offer slightly richer maximum blacks as a result.
* It is a near neutral fix that changes the pH of the film or paper from alkaline to near neutral, unlike TF4 in which the film or paper stays at an alkaline pH value.
No image bleaching. All conventional fixers act as reducers. This means that the longer the material is left in the fixer, the more image silver is destroyed. This can only have bad effects on the image, whether it is a print or a negative. Conventional sodium thiosulfate (rapid) fixers suffer from this defect especially. The problem is eliminated in TF-5, which may offer slightly richer maximum blacks as a result.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Using stop bath won't hurt the film, it damages the fixer, reducing its capacity. Stop baths are not needed with any film today. I've never used one in 27 years and my work has never suffered from using a water rinse.
In both high school and at Indiana University, we were taught to use just water between the developer and fix.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The differences between TF4 and TF5 are:
1: PH. TF4 is alkaline, TF5 is neutral, neither alkaline nor acid. If you're using a staining developer, I would stick with TF4. For other developers, it doesn't matter.
2: TF4 is a pain to mix because of the solids still found in the concentrate. I believe that TF5 does not have this issue. I am going by what others have told me here, since I have not used TF5.
3: There have been several discussions of these fixers on Photrio.com (formerly APUG). This forum is a big hangout for hardcore film users. The consensus was that TF5 had less capacity than TF4 when used for film.
Regarding the claim that you get better maximum blacks with TF5:
It only applies to paper developing. Blacks on film are the clear part of the film, not the dark part. Even with paper, the claim is dubious. No fixer will bleach the image on any paper unless you leave the print in the fixer for a VERY long time.
You do not want to do that anyway, as long fixing times produce non-archival prints. The longer that paper is in contact with the fixer, the harder it is to wash the fixer and fixing by-products out of the paper. Especially with fiber-base paper. That's why rapid fixers are not the recommended standard for archival paper processing. Most papers fix in just one minute in rapid fixer, while traditional Sodium Thiosulfate fixers took 10 minutes!
roscoetuff
Well-known
Chris: Many thanks for this. Appreciate the help.