How to pick a IIIF candidate for CLA?

[goamules]

I just bought a very clean iiiF RDST, mostly because of the lens (a Serenar 1.9 I've never had). Like all Leicas I've ever bought, this one needs a CLA. I have another iiiF already, a black dial, sitting in the safe needing a CLA badly. This red dial isn't so bad, most of the shutter speeds work above 1/75. Sometimes the slower ones work, sounding ok for speed. Sometimes the shutter does half it's job (opens) if you hold the button down, but it won't close until you release the button. Like a B setting. Above 100 it sounds great. Self timer works, rangefinder windows bright.

So the question is: if I keep exercising the shutter will that help (it has so far) enough to not need an expensive CLA?

If you had this red dial, with very nice shutter curtains, and a black dial owned by a famous person with very wrinkled shutter curtain, would you just CLA the red, and sell the black? Or not CLA, and try to exercise it more, run a roll through?

 

[mpaniagua]

If you are thinking about selling, I would suggest to pass the CLA to the next owner. Normally I do CLA for cameras I'm planning on using regularly, or an camera that I got cheap and can sell with a price tag that can cover the CLA cost (example, $150dlls camera that can be sell for $500dlls with CLA).



Marcelo

 

[madNbad]

Both of them are nearly seventy year old cameras and exercising the speeds will only do so much. Send the red dial out for a CLA and you'll have a great, useable camera. Keep the black dial on the shelf as a conversation piece about the previous owner.

 

[Timmyjoe]

First off, tell us who the famous person is? 😀

I'd have the CLA done to the camera you want to use. Take each one, run thru shooting with each, ignore the shutter for now. Do your lenses focus smoothly on both? How is the rangefinder spot? I've had a number of IIIf and IIIc cameras over the years and have always held on to the ones with the best focus patch, as some of them were so faint I couldn't focus. What condition is the rest of each camera in. Take up spool, good condition? Bottom plate, good condition? How much brassing and finish marks are on each? What condition is the vulcanite?

Again, after going thru all this, I'd have the CLA done to the camera you like using the most.

Best,
-Tim

 

[goamules]

It was the Univ of Arizona president that created the Center for Creative Photography, along with Ansel Adams. He had the camera, and several autographed books to him from Ansel. To me, that's pretty cool, but the Black Dial has a really messed up shutter and curtains. Otherwise it's about mint body wise. The new Red looks quite good too, and has just a spot or two on the metal, after cleaning.

Good point about just compare RF patches. But I feel a "simple" CLA on the Red will be cheaper than a more comprehensive shutter/curtain job on the Black, so am leaning that way.

 

[goamules]

"new" iiif Red

"Famous" iiif Black

 

[Timmyjoe]

The history of the black camera is pretty cool.

Okay, upon seeing them both, just personal opinion, I'd do the black one because I've never liked the self timer on the Barnacks. Not saying they don't work. Just hate the look of them and them interfering with how I hold the camera. To each their own.

Best,
-Tim

 

[David Hughes]

Well as "the Black Dial has a really messed up shutter and curtains" I'd get that one done now while we are still sure of parts for it. A few years down the line and we may not have them available. No point in having a duff camera and so both ought to be done and used in the long run...


Regards, David

 

[goamules]

Good points all. But here is my situation: I have several working, CLA'd cameras, including: Leica IIa, M3, Canon P, Nicca lever wind 5L, Nicca 3-S, a dozen Retinas. I don't NEED another working rangefinder. But I've never had a post war Barnack by Leica that works. Everyone I've ever found needed a CLA, so I sold them over time. I'm thinking I would LIKE just ONE good III to live with forever. The other is either staying broken on the shelf, or one day will be sold.

I heard the Red types had a better shutter design than the black. Can someone tell me about that? Also, a CLA for Red is $150. A CLA for Black is $200-?? for the new curtains too.

 

[Richard G]

You should do both for the satisfaction. Your costs for both look the same as for one most other parts of the world. You could then sell at a premium the famous one, timed for an anniversary of CCP or something.

 

[punkzter]

I'm not sure I have much to add, but I have a IIIf (my grandfather's) that I sent to DAG that needed shutter work and new curtains. Fixing the shutter didn't add anything to the cost of the CLA. Changing the curtains does. But, you have to wonder if either would need new curtains...making the cost for either job about the same.

 

[goamules]

I think the black needs curtains, but the red does not. I can't see doing $300 worth of CLA's on two cameras, when I'll barely use one. I'm going to have to chose one only.

 

[raydm6]

...

I heard the Red types had a better shutter design than the black. Can someone tell me about that?... .

I'm no expert and may be way off, but I seem to remember hearing the later IIIf's (with no screws holding the top-plate on) have the roller-bearing shutters? I really need to yield to the experts on that one.

Your IIIf RD seems to be a later model (no screws), whereas the IIIf BD has screws holding the top-plate on.

 

[madNbad]

Sell the red dial and fix the black dial. The red dial is a nice camera but the black dial has a story with it.

 

[goamules]

I just did a comparison against the two (no film). Both cameras are almost equal, other than features. But I did compare them

Red - vs - Black (left and right below)

1. Has a desirable ball bearing shutter - Other has old type shutter.
2. Currently shutter very quiet wind very smooth and light - shutter very stiff, catching all speeds, wind stiff.
3. Shutter curtains look great - Shutter curtains just ok, some wrinkles
4. Rangefinder patch 80% of contrast - Rangefinder patch 90% contrast (slightly better)
5. Body excellent - Body excellent

6. Estimated CLA cost $150 - Estimated CLA cost $250
7. If CLA'd I would have $450 in it - I would have $400 in it
7. Value when working well $325 - Value $200 (+ unknown fame factor)

It's about a wash. I think I like the look of the Self Timer, and the idea of the ball bearing shutter, and the cheaper CLA. My thought is the owner had it CLAd at least once in it's lifetime. The black, prob not ever - very stiff and gummed up.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Not that my opinion means anything, but I'd CLA the Red. Reason: It's in better mechanical shape than the black one.
The red one has a story to it too, you just don't know what it is.
It is a more useable camera, IMO, with the self timer. I'm sure the ball bearing shutter is going to last longer too.

 

[goamules]

Thanks, I agree

 

[goamules]

I shot a roll of Delta 100 through it, speeds down to 25 and up to 200. They all came out. I may not CLA it for a while.

 

[Rob-F]

Maybe do the red dial first, and the black dial later?

There are ways to ease up the lubrication. You can set it out in the warm sunlight on the back yard table while sunbathing. exercise the shutter every few minutes. But it's a mere palliative measure. In the end, it will need a CLA anyhow.

 

[goamules]

I'll try that. It definitely warmed up with me running the shutter a few shots an hour for a day. Then trying the film test.