BobPS
Established
Hi guys,
Several months ago I bought a new 28 elmarit ASPH for a good price. I bought it to accompany my 50mm Cron for use on my M6. I plan to have a 3 lenses kit, which will consist of 28, 50 and 90 mm lenses.
Anyway, I have been shooting several rolls with this 28 elmarit, and I like the results, espescially indoor. The problem is, I find it's really difficult to shoot with this wide angle lens. I often have empty space in the pictures, in many of them, cause I'm affraid that moving too close would result in distortion.
Can you guys give me some tips or advice on how to shoot with wide angle lenses?
I have a 17-40 and 24-70 canon lens, but I seldom use them at their wide end. Mostly I use them close to the long end. And their zoom lenses so I can simply zoom in to compose. This 28 elmarit is the widest fxed lens I have and it's difficult to use.
I got a bit frustrated that I'm thinking about selling it and get a not-so-wide lens like a 35mm. But then, I don't want to give up and I want to learn how to use this 28mm lens.
Thanks in advance,
bob
Several months ago I bought a new 28 elmarit ASPH for a good price. I bought it to accompany my 50mm Cron for use on my M6. I plan to have a 3 lenses kit, which will consist of 28, 50 and 90 mm lenses.
Anyway, I have been shooting several rolls with this 28 elmarit, and I like the results, espescially indoor. The problem is, I find it's really difficult to shoot with this wide angle lens. I often have empty space in the pictures, in many of them, cause I'm affraid that moving too close would result in distortion.
Can you guys give me some tips or advice on how to shoot with wide angle lenses?
I have a 17-40 and 24-70 canon lens, but I seldom use them at their wide end. Mostly I use them close to the long end. And their zoom lenses so I can simply zoom in to compose. This 28 elmarit is the widest fxed lens I have and it's difficult to use.
I got a bit frustrated that I'm thinking about selling it and get a not-so-wide lens like a 35mm. But then, I don't want to give up and I want to learn how to use this 28mm lens.
Thanks in advance,
bob
dfoo
Well-known
With wide angle lenses you have to get close. Real close. The wider the lens the closer to the action you must get. Closer than you think 
Phantomas
Well-known
Good question! I too would like to hear some general COMPOSITION tips on shooting with wides. You know, the general "rules" that work well. I have the ungodly 12mm Heliar (with 21mm Skopar next to it) and I just don't think I'm using it well. First of all, I should drop the habbit of pulling it out to shoot landscapes, this lens is not 100% suited for that, at least not in my hands. I also think I should point the camera lower and fit more ground in the frame.
I know this is a very general question, but maybe someone has some tips that we can take into account and take it from there. There's a member here, forgot the name, that is an undisputed master of 12mm. I'm always envious of his shots and try to pay attention to his composition technique for inspiration.
This is the best I can manage with 12mm:
I know this is a very general question, but maybe someone has some tips that we can take into account and take it from there. There's a member here, forgot the name, that is an undisputed master of 12mm. I'm always envious of his shots and try to pay attention to his composition technique for inspiration.
This is the best I can manage with 12mm:
dfoo
Well-known
^ nice shot!
craygc
Well-known
These are all 28mm shots (using the Fujifilm Klasse W compact camera)
28mm shots
Actually spending this week in Manila (Philippines) and taking the Nikon F3 this time. Intend to primarily work with a 20mm and 15mm lens. Main rule of thumb for wides is don't use them as a means of "getting everything in" as this does end up with lots of empty space. For people shots, the wider you go, the more you need to really put the camera in their face, but at least with 20mm and wider, people don't always realise they're in the frame
28mm shots
Actually spending this week in Manila (Philippines) and taking the Nikon F3 this time. Intend to primarily work with a 20mm and 15mm lens. Main rule of thumb for wides is don't use them as a means of "getting everything in" as this does end up with lots of empty space. For people shots, the wider you go, the more you need to really put the camera in their face, but at least with 20mm and wider, people don't always realise they're in the frame
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Get close, explore your subject from different angles of view (high, low, around the corner) while also exploring shooting at the same plane as your subject, eye to eye. WA lens produce intimate results. Be intimate with your approach.
f16sunshine
Moderator
![heliar4515flowersatnighym3.th.jpg](http://[URL="http://img369.imageshack.us/i/heliar4515flowersatnighym3.jpg/"][IMG]http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/830/heliar4515flowersatnighym3.th.jpg)
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Distortion is to be feared, but to avoid unwanted empty space you might try gradually to get closer than you have been until now. Sooner or later you should hit a suitable distance. My own widest lens is the 35mm although I have had 28mm lenses also. As something of a stick in the mud purist, I find that verticals are difficult to keep upright with a 28mm or wider.
raid
Dad Photographer
With people photography I would carefully place the subject in a part of the lens which either minimizes distortion [in the cnter], or I would balance the image by having people across the image so that no person alone looks abnormal. I always look and look and then again look through the VF before I take any photos with a wide angle lens. Get used to the perspective. Sometimes, the VF shows me views that are not good looking so I will change the perspective.
With scenics, try placing the camera low to the ground, or shoot downward from heights ... etc. to change the monontony of regaular wide angle images. Get an object close to the lens,and then balance with depth-of-field maneuvering the sharpness of that object in the fron and the objects in the back.
Then, switch once in a while to a 50mm lens to get another perspective, until you switch back to the wide anglelend. Make the 28mm/50mm combo your starting point.
With scenics, try placing the camera low to the ground, or shoot downward from heights ... etc. to change the monontony of regaular wide angle images. Get an object close to the lens,and then balance with depth-of-field maneuvering the sharpness of that object in the fron and the objects in the back.
Then, switch once in a while to a 50mm lens to get another perspective, until you switch back to the wide anglelend. Make the 28mm/50mm combo your starting point.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I use my 21mm/4.0 Skopar like I use my 35mm Summilux, only thing I step in alot closer. That's what photographers do.
Ken Rockwell: How to shoot wide angle, here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-use-ultra-wide-lenses.htm
Check it out -
Ken Rockwell: How to shoot wide angle, here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-use-ultra-wide-lenses.htm
Check it out -
oscroft
Veteran
Hi Bob,
You're in Jakarta?
Head down to all those crowded side streets, where you'd feel far too cramped with a 50, and perhaps even personally claustrophobic in the mass of humanity that makes up such wonderful Asian cities.
Go poke your 28mm lens into the faces and businesses of the people you see, and don't shoot until you're close enough to smell what you're photographing.
You're in a fantastic place for wideangle shots. You just need to lose your reserve and go stick it where you might be afraid it's not wanted - and you might be surprised by how people actually don't notice you.
Cheers,
You're in Jakarta?
Head down to all those crowded side streets, where you'd feel far too cramped with a 50, and perhaps even personally claustrophobic in the mass of humanity that makes up such wonderful Asian cities.
Go poke your 28mm lens into the faces and businesses of the people you see, and don't shoot until you're close enough to smell what you're photographing.
You're in a fantastic place for wideangle shots. You just need to lose your reserve and go stick it where you might be afraid it's not wanted - and you might be surprised by how people actually don't notice you.
Cheers,
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Al Kaplan
Veteran
Just don't worry about it and don't think about. I shoot about everything with the 15 Heliar. I carry other lenses to 135mm and own lenses to 400mm but I still find myself using the 15. Before that hit the market I mostly shot with a 19mm.
Some people just "see wide". We don't notice the "distortion". If you have an interesting subject, good lighting, and good composition you have it made. Non-photographers don't
think much beyond "Oooh! Dramatic composition!" Just get up close, maybe chatting with your buddies from two or three feet away and start shooting. Then move CLOSER!
http://thepriceofsiver.blogspot.com
Some people just "see wide". We don't notice the "distortion". If you have an interesting subject, good lighting, and good composition you have it made. Non-photographers don't
think much beyond "Oooh! Dramatic composition!" Just get up close, maybe chatting with your buddies from two or three feet away and start shooting. Then move CLOSER!
http://thepriceofsiver.blogspot.com
andredossantos
Well-known
I generally don't photograph people in the street, but do a lot of urban landscape/fragments/etc type stuff. FWIW when I am using a wide angle, I am usually squatting, crouching, or kneeling.
Another thing, make sure your composition is devoid of extraneous stuff that will just look far off and uninteresting once printed. It takes a bit of getting used to. If the composition doesn't look right in the viewfinder move up, down, closer, further back to get it "right". Can your camera accept a waistlevel finder?
Don't worry too much about disortion. Even with distortion a strong photo will look good. Definitely don't obsess about it while shooting.
Another thing, make sure your composition is devoid of extraneous stuff that will just look far off and uninteresting once printed. It takes a bit of getting used to. If the composition doesn't look right in the viewfinder move up, down, closer, further back to get it "right". Can your camera accept a waistlevel finder?
Don't worry too much about disortion. Even with distortion a strong photo will look good. Definitely don't obsess about it while shooting.
mfogiel
Veteran
The above advice is good, get close, don't be afraid of the distortion, try to fill the frame,, the wides are great fun:
12mm
15mm
21mm
25mm
28mm (Elmarit ASPH)
12mm
15mm
21mm
25mm
28mm (Elmarit ASPH)
BobPS
Established
Thank you everybody for all the advice.
Hi Alan, yes I'm in Jakarta. And all the advices here make me want to go out and practice them. We're in the beginning of fasting month now (Ramadhan mont), and usually in the afternoon before sunset, some places /streets will be crowded with people buying food or snack to break their fast. I'm going to go to one of these places this afternoon and practice.
Thanks for the advice guys.
Bob
Hi Alan, yes I'm in Jakarta. And all the advices here make me want to go out and practice them. We're in the beginning of fasting month now (Ramadhan mont), and usually in the afternoon before sunset, some places /streets will be crowded with people buying food or snack to break their fast. I'm going to go to one of these places this afternoon and practice.
Thanks for the advice guys.
Bob
Turtle
Veteran
BobPS,
Remember there is distortion (bent lines where they should be straight) and perspective distortion where close faces have big noses and small ears!
The 28 asph 2.8 has very little curvilinear distortion and unless you are shooting architecture, it is unlikely to be any kind of an issue.
For me, I use the 28 precisley because I want to get in close. With a 50mm, the actions happens 'over there' with a 35 it happens 'right in front of you' and with a 28 it happens 'around you'. Working with this in mind you can creat shots with a very dynamic feel and senses of action all around. IMO the great thing about 28 and to a degree 24 is that perspective distortion is often corrected out by the brain when viewing images. With 21 and wider we often look at an image and think 'what's happened to that person'. 28 therefore offers a great balance, from usefulness as ageneral wideangle for landscape type images to close up action.
with a 0.72 finder I second the recommendation for an external finder which has space around the lines, but for different reasons. You can zone focus, stop down to anything from f5.6 to f11 or even F16 depending on distance/desired DOF and observe thru the external finder as people, things, limbs enter and exit the frame. You can create wonderful images that describe an activity using fragments or simply took place at that decisive moment, made all the easier to anticipate with the ext finder.
Do not give up on 28. I used to hardly use it with my 0.72 body until I got a 0.58 where I could see more of what was going on with a casual glance from my eye (rather than searching around the frame). I went thru a phase using it most of all. now I am back to 35mm as my mainstay, but know when the 28 is the only one that will do and prob use it about 30% of the time.
IMHO carefully composed deliberate images are not where RF and 28 are at their best, though I do sometimes shoot this way. This FL is great for injecting a real sense of energy into your work without the naff look the superwides can sometimes give.
Remember there is distortion (bent lines where they should be straight) and perspective distortion where close faces have big noses and small ears!
The 28 asph 2.8 has very little curvilinear distortion and unless you are shooting architecture, it is unlikely to be any kind of an issue.
For me, I use the 28 precisley because I want to get in close. With a 50mm, the actions happens 'over there' with a 35 it happens 'right in front of you' and with a 28 it happens 'around you'. Working with this in mind you can creat shots with a very dynamic feel and senses of action all around. IMO the great thing about 28 and to a degree 24 is that perspective distortion is often corrected out by the brain when viewing images. With 21 and wider we often look at an image and think 'what's happened to that person'. 28 therefore offers a great balance, from usefulness as ageneral wideangle for landscape type images to close up action.
with a 0.72 finder I second the recommendation for an external finder which has space around the lines, but for different reasons. You can zone focus, stop down to anything from f5.6 to f11 or even F16 depending on distance/desired DOF and observe thru the external finder as people, things, limbs enter and exit the frame. You can create wonderful images that describe an activity using fragments or simply took place at that decisive moment, made all the easier to anticipate with the ext finder.
Do not give up on 28. I used to hardly use it with my 0.72 body until I got a 0.58 where I could see more of what was going on with a casual glance from my eye (rather than searching around the frame). I went thru a phase using it most of all. now I am back to 35mm as my mainstay, but know when the 28 is the only one that will do and prob use it about 30% of the time.
IMHO carefully composed deliberate images are not where RF and 28 are at their best, though I do sometimes shoot this way. This FL is great for injecting a real sense of energy into your work without the naff look the superwides can sometimes give.
BobPS
Established
Thank you very much Turtle. BTW, perspective distortion is what i try to avoid, though come to think of it I think the subjects that I photograph on the street or other places wouldn't mind it
Anyway, I'm beginning to see what my problem is. I'm so used to 50mm lens that when I have 28mm on the camera, I still think (and compose) and see with a field of view of a 50mm lens. Does that make sense?
Thanks for all the advice guys,
bob
Al Kaplan
Veteran
It makes a lot of sense Bob. When you really "learn" a lens your mind can project a frame line into the scene picking out potential compositions. I walk about seeing the world outlined in 15/35/90mm frames. It makes it easy to choose a lens.
photographworks
Newbie
Distortion is a function of viewing distance.
Distortion is a function of viewing distance.
Look at a good sized print taken with a wide angle lens. A full page print in a book will do.
My local camera store had a print on their wall of a car that was taken with a Bessa rangefinder and a wide angle lens. That was perfect and also fun to see people moving closer and further away to test the effect of distortion, as follows:
Look at it from the 'normal' viewing distance and there will be apparent distortion. Now stick your nose and inch or two from the print. - Distortion gone!
Moving back and forth with your eye to the viewfinder will help you get the distance from the subject that will result in a print that looks OK.
Distortion is a function of viewing distance.
Look at a good sized print taken with a wide angle lens. A full page print in a book will do.
My local camera store had a print on their wall of a car that was taken with a Bessa rangefinder and a wide angle lens. That was perfect and also fun to see people moving closer and further away to test the effect of distortion, as follows:
Look at it from the 'normal' viewing distance and there will be apparent distortion. Now stick your nose and inch or two from the print. - Distortion gone!
Moving back and forth with your eye to the viewfinder will help you get the distance from the subject that will result in a print that looks OK.
fusubpin
Newbie
Great work .. really informative .. and thanks a lot for sharing ..