How to turn down work without burning bridges

It's just part of the business. If she's a paying client then she gets to pick the Photos. The clients the one that has to be pleased. You're doing the job for her not you.

Anyone that wants to be a photographer for pay better get used to this.
 
koven said:
I live in Toronto Canada, not Indiana. There a way bigger market for photographers.
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bigger market but also WAAAY more GWCs who are taking jobs for free or credit. DO NOT go down this path. Breaking into this market is going to be tough, sorry but that's the truth.

I've worked with many artist (various fields) reps and they do talk and I hear stories about previous experiences with photographers from them so be mindful of this. Of course, they're also letting me know I need to treat their client with this in mind and I do, I have good bedside manners ;)
 
Richard G said:
Two consequences of signing on again: you'll get more work; but you might become the go to guy for prima donnas others avoid. Watch out for that.
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If the OP can produce quality work from these clients, that's a big win in his favour and will set him up for better work, imo.

If he/she wants to break into the Toronto market, they're going to end up with one of these high needs clients eventually so they need to learn how to work with them. It's not a bed of roses in Toronto.
 
Lots of good advice here - up to you to pick the advice that fits your situation best.
To me it sounds like it's more about people skills - she is nervous about presenting herself in the best possible way, and it is now your job to calm her / convince her and make both of you see eye to eye.

You must have done something right re. photography - as the client is back for seconds.

Good people skills will open doors that are otherwise shut - possibly given you an opportunity that you otherwise wouldn't have...simply because "they like you".

Bad people skills won't.

That being said, people skills have nothing to do with allowing others to walk all over you, but turning the situation around to everybody's perceived advantage.

Good luck!

/Meakin
 
Koven, there's much good advice here.

You obviously did enough right that your client is back. That says a lot about you. You're getting more work, and obviously there are others who have worked with this client in the past who are NOT.

If your client is back for more of your work, now is the time to have a friendly and frank conversation with her about what she's looking for this time around. What does she really want? Now that you have experience with what she likes and doesn't like about herself, you can maximize her assets and minimize her faults as she sees them. Trust me, if she likes what you're doing, she's talking to her professional contacts about you. Word of mouth is the best advertising.

Readjust your perspective. Working in photography isn't about doing what you like, it's about bringing your view of the world to clients who are willing to pay for it. If she's willing to pay for your view of her world again, then you're doing exactly what you should be doing. Keep it professional, and guide the conversation and the work, but cater to your client. At the very least, you're getting one more paying gig. At the long end, you may be making a career choice if this leads to more work with other artists. Either way, you've got nothing to lose but a little time, and everything to gain.
 
newsgrunt said:
bigger market but also WAAAY more GWCs who are taking jobs for free or credit. DO NOT go down this path. Breaking into this market is going to be tough, sorry but that's the truth.
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And I'm sure there are tons of Ryerson photo grads who'd take the work if you didn't want it. Be thankful you're in demand by this person.
 
I am on the other side of the fence, booking photographers to work for me. The one I work with the most, is actually the one that pushes back the most.

His most successful tactic? "Sure, we could do that, but that will take and extra day and/or will double the cost of the shoot." I can tell you, that usually gets my attention :)
 
koven said:
Thanks for the responses guys, gave me something to think about. Are some of you guys saying its normal to have difficult customers?


Anyway I think I may suck it up and just do it. The thing is I put a lot of effort into that first shoot and I acted very professional and courteous. I almost was taken advantage of. I just think I may have set a dangerous precedent with that last shoot.

I'll probably do it for the practice at least if anything. And to someone who said I shouldn't turn down work, I agree but I know for a fact If I chase every dollar my work and reputation may suffer.

Thanks again guys! Its good to hear some insight from people in the business.
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Koven,

One of my friends does editorial portraiture like this, I did quite a bit myself. Some people are uncomfortable having their photo made, others are just distracted and busy, some are simply rude people. They're clients, we are working for them. We do our best to act professionally with them and make a relationship that produces the best work. That's what matters, the work. One of her clients was a real b----h on the first shoot, but she didn't let that phase her, she persevered and made some wonderful portraits. He grunted when he saw them... But after that, she's the only photographer he'll let do his photos and they get along really well.

Photography is hard work. It's not sensible to turn down good work UNLESS you think you cannot produce the goods to your, and the client's, satisfaction. OR if you know you're going to have trouble getting paid.. I turned down a couple of jobs that I knew weren't going to make the cut on that score.

G
 
Not gonna pile on here, but I will say that I've had this problem in my real life job. OP has a real opportunity. Others won't work with this client because she is difficult. She seems to like your work.

My advice would be to quote an appropriate price, learn exactly what she likes (by working that much more closely with her), and then delivering.

You will have a client for life - one that might even pay a premium just because you deliver what she likes.

Good luck!
 
Bonus, if you build trust with her (e.g. she stops second guessing your work because she sees you consistently deliver - and now know what she wants), she might become a lot easier to work with.
 
Nigel Meaby said:
It's amazing that a kid with a couple of hundred snapshots of your mates and a bit of street on Flickr, with your X100, and supposedly "a couple of pictures that went viral on Tumblr (and?) starts throwing his weight around here and insulting knowledgeable, experienced photographers such as Chris.
Take a humility pill kiddo! You really are not all that yet and probably never will be.
You got a lucky break and some work with a singer and now you think you can turn down work! Take whatever you can because you never know when it's going to dry up. You also need all the experience you can get!
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I apologize for my earlier post. It was an emotionally triggered response and I regret it. Oh yeah and Ive done a couple other things since my Thank you post. ;)

Thank you for the responses guys! I'm getting a lot of information here that I probably wouldn't have got anywhere else.
 
sonofdanang said:
Overshoot. With a disciplined approach.

Never show the client anything but your best work. Let them make their selections from that set. To do otherwise is to risk having to look at the turd they selected for the cover of the magazine for an entire month.

And, when someone tells you a low-paying job is good exposure, remember that in this climate you can die of exposure.
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This is all great advice, Also keep in mind that when she's being critical, to some extent, it's not about your photos, it's because they're of her, most people get overly critical when they see themselves in photographs, even those who are very used to being photographed.

The photos aren't finished while they're on your camera, or when they're copied across to your laptop, they're finished when you've finished them, and it should be the finished shots that are chosen from, because anything else just isn't representative of your work.

That said, she's already used to being involved earlier in the process, so you're going to have to accommodate that.

Politely point out that these are not the finished product, allow her to throw out some images if she really wants to, that way she goes having had her input, and her views taken on board, and then go and finish the remaining images, and have her choose from those.

That way she's been able to feel involved, and get to veto some shots that she feels she's not comfortable with, and then she gets to choose properly from the glossy finished product, which she's much more likely to be happy.
 
It's your choice...I am at a point in life that I won't put up with difficult people because I don't have to.

I would recommend that, if you do, be sure to get paid up front. It establishes the business relationship in a way that can not be done any other way. Then, do your best work and let the chips fall...

Never, ever fail to get paid up front.;)
 
MikeAUS said:
Koven, some very good advice here - some not so good. Just keep taking pictures - your portraits are some of the best I have seen and I'm sure more clients will come your way ...
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I agree. I really like your work.

I like Chris's too.

Two very talented photographers. I wish I could be half as good..
 
Sometimes the difficult clients, if you can win them over, will become your best assets. In a different field years ago I dealt with a man who complained about everything from my prices to my service and was very hard to get along with ... but he kept coming back! I subsequently discovered that although he appeared to be more hard work than he was worth he consistently recommended me to his friends who bought me all their business. Interestingly most of his friends told me that he was a PITA and had always been that way. :D

My congrats to you Koven ... you have handled some of the negativity towards you here very well. I also like your photos a lot ... I think you'll do well.
 
Yes, I've worked with bar steward clients, and learned a lot from it. But sooner or later, with the terminal bar stewards, there comes a point where life is not long enough to deal with arseholes. The choice at this point is between becoming a sniveling slave or burning your bridges with that client; and, possibly, her/his chums. Then again, turning down a known arsehole can sometimes enhance your reputation among those who know the people in question (you and the client)...

You can't have it both ways: you have to choose.

Cheers,

R.
 
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