brokencivilian
Established
This is something I have always pondered and could never find an answer so. How tough are Leica M cameras. I mean, they feel solid and I believe they are truly tough.. but I have never read anything about them being weather resistant or shock proof.
I will be taking hopefully two M6's with me to Alaska and Australia on some trips soon and not that durability is an issue, but it would be nice to know what degree of abuse they could take. If something were to happen. I know that the m3s have seen war and a lot of difference photojournalist abuse in their past, but it is still something I am wondering.
Any insight would be helpful.
Discuss.
I will be taking hopefully two M6's with me to Alaska and Australia on some trips soon and not that durability is an issue, but it would be nice to know what degree of abuse they could take. If something were to happen. I know that the m3s have seen war and a lot of difference photojournalist abuse in their past, but it is still something I am wondering.
Any insight would be helpful.
Discuss.
JHP
Well-known
Since lightly dropping my M4 onto a table top and separating the finder completely and rendering the camera useless, my faith in the hardiness of older M's went out the window. Any small drop or knock can put the rangefinder out or break the seal of that canadian glue, separating the finder and causing it to go black. For someone that can't afford to frequently send my cameras off to germany to get fine tuned, this was annoying for me and I just had to sell the M4.
They feel tough and are built tough externally but the intricacies inside are so easily knocked out of place, from my experiences anyway.
That being said, I have had no problems with my newer MP.
I hope I don't get my head bitten off for this.
They feel tough and are built tough externally but the intricacies inside are so easily knocked out of place, from my experiences anyway.
That being said, I have had no problems with my newer MP.
I hope I don't get my head bitten off for this.
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Archiver
Veteran
Sometime it is just plain luck of the draw. I've read dozens of stories of film M's surviving all manner of bad treatment, and a number of stories of misalignments and other damage resulting from seemingly innocuous accidents.
I believe that the M6's have a good reputation for hardiness, but I also understand that the M3 is reportedly the hardest wearing, or is the least reported with damage issues. Mechanical cameras will usually be hardier than ones with electronic components due to water/moisture issues and electronic failure, which does happen in some instances.
I believe that the M6's have a good reputation for hardiness, but I also understand that the M3 is reportedly the hardest wearing, or is the least reported with damage issues. Mechanical cameras will usually be hardier than ones with electronic components due to water/moisture issues and electronic failure, which does happen in some instances.
chrishayton
Well-known
Any camera thats 40 years+ old is going to be tempermental. The weakness of an m camera is the rangefinder. On the m3/2/4 cameras balsam seperation can be an issue as mentioned above. Later cameras are holding up alot better but its still a delicate system that doest appreciate being knocked about.
ckuang
Established
As much I'd love to believe the hype about the leica ms as being the hardiest cameras etc, my Canons and Nikons have had less problems. My leicas are by far, more expensive to maintain and run.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
If you're going to do lots of outdoor stuff there: bring two Nikon FM2ns. They only need a battery for the lightmeter, the rest of the camera is mechanical. They do not get knocked out of line.
If insisting on bringing Leicas, I'd choose two other countries starting with 'A' to visit, where it will be easier and less expensive to have a Leica M serviced.
If insisting on bringing Leicas, I'd choose two other countries starting with 'A' to visit, where it will be easier and less expensive to have a Leica M serviced.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
They're pretty tough, but not as tough as a Nikon F. Mine get knocked about, (very occasionally) dropped, etc., and the only two problems I've had since 1974 with M-mount Leicas (both on an M4-P, as it happens) were a cracked viewfinder window and a bent rewind crank. You can see from my site that they get carried around and used a lot. In a period of 6 weeks, earlier in the year, they covered just under 6000 miles in a motorcycle tank bag...
Of course, some people are clumsy, some are careless, and some are just unlucky. Oh: and some are paranoid.
Cheers,
R.
Of course, some people are clumsy, some are careless, and some are just unlucky. Oh: and some are paranoid.
Cheers,
R.
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Haigh
Gary Haigh
I dropped my Canadian M4 onto the tiled floor of a Paris cafe and the blow was severe enough to bend the rewind knob's axis/axle. I had to file off a bit of the knob so it could rotate and went on happily photographing in Paris, rangefinder intact. I am taking a Bessa R4A as well this time but I would not expect it to stand up to such a blow.
alan davus
Well-known
I took my beloved M6ttl "swimming" whilst crossing a creek on a hiking trip in New Zealand last summer. It was actually in a waist bag at the time that was zipped shut. The bag was never submerged but obviously got wet. When I got to shore there was about an inch of water in the bottom of the bag. The M6's circuit board was completely destroyed (replacement is more than the camera cost new), the shutter won't fire and the frameline lever doesn't work amongst others. I'm still debating the economics of getting the mechanical side of the camera working and then using it with a little CV external meter. If it had just been a Bessa R** I would just throw it away and get a new one. It certainly has killed off my desire to get a new MP. Moral of the story: don't get 'em wet.
dave lackey
Veteran
Jeez, if one of our members, Turtle, can take Leicas to Afghanistan for years of use, what are you worried about?
That said, there is a recent thread about which camera to take to Alaska. Lots of good suggestions. For me, it would be easy. Nikon F5 or F100 and a D2X for interchangeability of lenses. One film (for black and white) and one digital (for color).
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Photon42
burn the box
If you're going to do lots of outdoor stuff there: bring two Nikon FM2ns. They only need a battery for the lightmeter, the rest of the camera is mechanical. They do not get knocked out of line.
If insisting on bringing Leicas, I'd choose two other countries starting with 'A' to visit, where it will be easier and less expensive to have a Leica M serviced.
My FM2 recently flipped up its mirror and that was it. Bought it new in late 1982 as my first camera. Ok, it's now close to 30 years ... but I did not use it really in the last 10 years or so.
Rgds
Ivo
Brian Puccio
Well-known
My M6 TTL was on a tripod on sand about 3 feet up and got knocked over one night and survived no problem.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
I don't think they're as tough as they're cracked up to be. I've had less trouble with vintage Canon rangefinders than Ms, for example. I've also owned/used many digital cameras and had fewer problems than I have had with mechanical cameras. Dante Stella has a good writeup on the mechanical/electronic debate in terms of hardiness that's worth considering.
The Nikon F and F2 are probably the most solid cameras I've ever used, but if you wander over to Sover Wong's repair pages on the F2 he states in no uncertain terms that water and moisture can kill an F2. They're not waterproof.
I love M cameras (M5 is my favorite) but i find them a bit finicky.
The Nikon F and F2 are probably the most solid cameras I've ever used, but if you wander over to Sover Wong's repair pages on the F2 he states in no uncertain terms that water and moisture can kill an F2. They're not waterproof.
I love M cameras (M5 is my favorite) but i find them a bit finicky.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Look, these are all precision mechanical objects with hundreds of moving parts. You want rugged? Bring a pinhole camera made out of a coffee tin and a hammer to bang out any dings.
Otherwise there is some level of mechanical force which is going to scramble the innards of any of these devices and attempting to anecdotally fine tune the amount of impact any of them can take misses the point.
In the abstract, I agree with Roger. I have only had one issue with a Leica M camera involving an impact: a four foot dead drop on the rewind crank to a marble floor at Union Station in Washington DC. A day with a competent camera repairman set the M right and the bend in the rewind crank is not severe enough to do anything about. I think that it would have had the same effect if the camera had been a Nikon F. Maybe not. I'll never know. Your issue is that there won't be a Leica tech waiting for you in the wilderness. The answer is a good back-up, not A vs. B reliability.
FWIW: I wouldn't submerge any modern electronic camera. "Weather sealing" does not translate into "dunkable;" it means that if you are in a light rain or in the mist, that there is less of a chance that moisture is going to fry the sucker's delicate electronics.
My advice: you'll be fine with the two M6's. Just take a) a no-batteries hand-held light meter you trust and b) an Olympus Stylus in a zip loc baggie. You'll be fine.
Otherwise there is some level of mechanical force which is going to scramble the innards of any of these devices and attempting to anecdotally fine tune the amount of impact any of them can take misses the point.
In the abstract, I agree with Roger. I have only had one issue with a Leica M camera involving an impact: a four foot dead drop on the rewind crank to a marble floor at Union Station in Washington DC. A day with a competent camera repairman set the M right and the bend in the rewind crank is not severe enough to do anything about. I think that it would have had the same effect if the camera had been a Nikon F. Maybe not. I'll never know. Your issue is that there won't be a Leica tech waiting for you in the wilderness. The answer is a good back-up, not A vs. B reliability.
FWIW: I wouldn't submerge any modern electronic camera. "Weather sealing" does not translate into "dunkable;" it means that if you are in a light rain or in the mist, that there is less of a chance that moisture is going to fry the sucker's delicate electronics.
My advice: you'll be fine with the two M6's. Just take a) a no-batteries hand-held light meter you trust and b) an Olympus Stylus in a zip loc baggie. You'll be fine.
_goodtimez
Well-known
If I was on a trip to Alaska and Australia, I would take Leica Ms and also also go with a Nikonos III, a real rugged camera.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Leicas are just cameras and as such can break down from time to time. I made two trips to Australia, one carrying a Nikon FM2n and the other carrying a Leica M4, and no problems either time. So for me the Leica is as good as the Nikon or the Nikon is as good as the Leica, take your pick. I do not deliberately abuse my cameras, if you are that kind of photographer all bets are off. If you try hard enough you can destroy anything. You will be carrying 2 M6s so you do have back up if one goes south so just enjoy your trip. If you are thinking of wildlife photos in Alaska the M is the wrong camera for that sort of thing though. I hope you are taking an SLR and long tele with you too.
Bob
Bob
ferider
Veteran
Your M6 bodies are the sturdiest of all Leicas: metal gears, zinc top and bottom, which don't ding but crack on much more pressure only. I once dropped an M6 from shoulder height on a wood floor and nothing happened. It was in a Luigi case, however.
The thing that breaks easiest is the aluminum rewind knob (it did for me on another occasion). You might want to replace this with a Leicaflex or M4 brass knob (DIY, Don@DAG sells them).
If you want to add protection against dropping, etc., I recommend a leather half case (Zhou, Luigi, original Leica, depending on preference and budget). Use a neck strap. Take a screw driver on long trips to adjust the RF if necessary.
You say you'll take two cameras. You'll be fine.
I will be going to Alaska, too, and take Leica (M4P or M6, not sure yet) and Olympus OM.
Roland.
The thing that breaks easiest is the aluminum rewind knob (it did for me on another occasion). You might want to replace this with a Leicaflex or M4 brass knob (DIY, Don@DAG sells them).
If you want to add protection against dropping, etc., I recommend a leather half case (Zhou, Luigi, original Leica, depending on preference and budget). Use a neck strap. Take a screw driver on long trips to adjust the RF if necessary.
You say you'll take two cameras. You'll be fine.
I will be going to Alaska, too, and take Leica (M4P or M6, not sure yet) and Olympus OM.
Roland.
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nobbylon
Veteran
Jeez, if one of our members, Turtle, can take Leicas to Afghanistan for years of use, what are you worried about?
That said, there is a recent thread about which camera to take to Alaska. Lots of good suggestions. For me, it would be easy. Nikon F5 or F100 and a D2X for interchangeability of lenses. One film (for black and white) and one digital (for color).
I have to agree with Dave on this one. Even though it's heavy I'd take my F5 for film and D700 for digital if going anywhere remote. Sealed and proven. Take an M as backup with a 35 and seal in a plastic bag with a gel sache.
stupid leica
i don't shoot rf
i have absolutely no faith in the fabled Leica M "toughness/reliability"... why? because it doesn't exist.
I dont mean to start a debate, and this will be my last comment on the matter, but if you wish to take a camera into rough territory and have it survive- a Nikon FE2, FM2, F2, really ANY Nikon... will suite you better.
You just never know what will happen next with a M camera.
I dont mean to start a debate, and this will be my last comment on the matter, but if you wish to take a camera into rough territory and have it survive- a Nikon FE2, FM2, F2, really ANY Nikon... will suite you better.
You just never know what will happen next with a M camera.
sig
Well-known
I have been living in Australia for a while, your M (as every other camera in the world) should be able to hack it. Can not think of anything that can ruin your camera unless you wander into drop bear areas.....