jbf
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Hey guys... i have a question.
I bought some Ilfostop and used it for the first time today... But i realized that the 500ml only makes 10 liters of solution. It lasts for about seven days if mixed completely... So i was wondering if there was a stop bath that has a higher dillution (like 1+50) or something like that perhaps? Or even a stop bath that i can mix completely that will last a long time perhaps... (as in shelf life).
Also I'm using kodak hypo-clear... and after the initial mixing of the powder into 1 gallon (3.8 liters) concentrate, you then have to dillute it into 1+4 dilution to actually use it. And once mixed the working solution only lasts for 24 hours and then it goes bad.
So basically the same question. Know of a hypo-clear that once mixed to working solution will last longer period of time? Like seven days or have a shelf life of even 2 months? I dunno if it's possible but yeah...
Just trying to save money where I can so that I'm not wasting chemicals, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I bought some Ilfostop and used it for the first time today... But i realized that the 500ml only makes 10 liters of solution. It lasts for about seven days if mixed completely... So i was wondering if there was a stop bath that has a higher dillution (like 1+50) or something like that perhaps? Or even a stop bath that i can mix completely that will last a long time perhaps... (as in shelf life).
Also I'm using kodak hypo-clear... and after the initial mixing of the powder into 1 gallon (3.8 liters) concentrate, you then have to dillute it into 1+4 dilution to actually use it. And once mixed the working solution only lasts for 24 hours and then it goes bad.
So basically the same question. Know of a hypo-clear that once mixed to working solution will last longer period of time? Like seven days or have a shelf life of even 2 months? I dunno if it's possible but yeah...
Just trying to save money where I can so that I'm not wasting chemicals, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Can't help with any branded product because always used plain acetic acid. Dare say that's the least expensive alternative.
oscroft
Veteran
If you want to save money, don't buy stop bath and hypo-clear - plain water is all you need.
mhv
Registered User
Why do you need to dilute an entire bottle of stop bath at once?? Just dilute what you need, use it for the recommended time, and ditch it after.
If you want to go cheap, get vinegar or Kodak Indicator Stop bath. I use the latter because I like to have the pH indicator dye. Given that it's acetic acid, it lasts forever.
As to Hypo-Clear: you don't need it with film. If you use it for prints, then I suggest you get the Edwal variety. It's a very concentrated liquid solution that you dilute 1+32. You won't get away with the 24h work solution life, it's the way sodium sulfite lives.
If you want to go cheap, get vinegar or Kodak Indicator Stop bath. I use the latter because I like to have the pH indicator dye. Given that it's acetic acid, it lasts forever.
As to Hypo-Clear: you don't need it with film. If you use it for prints, then I suggest you get the Edwal variety. It's a very concentrated liquid solution that you dilute 1+32. You won't get away with the 24h work solution life, it's the way sodium sulfite lives.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
payasam said:
I've been using two separate rinses in H2O as my stop bath for years - which is really inexpensive. I do the same for prints, but change the water in the first tray often.
jbf
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Wait... so I dont need the hypo-clear at all? I've never quite understood why it was really needed. So what exactly does it do?
jbf
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Solinar said:
Could you explain this more? I dont quite understand what you mean by two seperate water baths/rinses.
Wouldnt you have the issue of your film continuing to develop as you fix the film? You'd have to adjust times because of this wouldnt you?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
jbf said:
HCA reacts with O2. I store mine as a stock solution in two 500ml "glass" bottles and mix as needed. Then add 1 part stock solution to 4 parts water to make working solution. The working solution will keep for a day.
Be sure to fill the second bottle to the top, a tiny air bubble about the size of a drop of water is fine. Your second bottle will last more than a couple of months.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
jbf said:
Water will stop the developing process or if you are a skeptic - slow it down so dramatically that it doesn't matter. The fixer will definitely stop development, but I reuse mine and don't want developer carrying over.
The first water rinse is only fully in the tank for about 10 to 15 seconds - during which time you agitate constantly. Dump the first rinse and then pour in the second water rinse and agitate well for 15 to 30 seconds.
Dump the second water rinse and you're ready to add the fixer.
Why two rinses? It minimalizes carry over of the developer to your fixer - if you reuse the fixer. Three water rinses in thirty to 45 seconds would be even better.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
jbf said:
Yes and no. HCA significantly shortens the final rinse time of the film. So, I use it.
What you don't need is to use an acetic acid stop bath. All commercially available stop baths are essentially acetic acid. Plus, it makes my bathroom sink area smell like vinegar.
oscroft
Veteran
Hypo-clear removes fixer from the emulsion and so shortens the subsequent washing time, so if you're in a hurry or super-keen to conserve every last drop of water then you might want to use it. But if you wash your film sufficiently well then you really don't need it - and modern thin-emulsion films wash pretty quickly.
jbf
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For final wash times how do you guys normally wash?
I've been using the ilford method... Fill tank, invert five times, dump. Fill tank, invert ten times, dump. Fill tanke, invert 15 times, dump. Fill tank, invert 20 times, dump.
Is that ok, or what would you suggest?
I've been using the ilford method... Fill tank, invert five times, dump. Fill tank, invert ten times, dump. Fill tanke, invert 15 times, dump. Fill tank, invert 20 times, dump.
Is that ok, or what would you suggest?
oscroft
Veteran
If you look around the various relevant photo sites you'll find conflicting opinions - some think the Ilford method is sufficient, some don't (and some claim that even if it is good enough to get all the fixer out, it doesn't necessarily remove all traces of developing chemicals). I'm old-fashioned (I started back when films were washed in running water for an hour - long before HCA was invented), but these days I've just about managed to accept that washing the old way isn't needed any more. So what I do now is effectively wash by the Ilford method, but then I follow that with about 15 mins in very slowly running water using a film washer hose - it seems like a good compromise between making sure my films are well washed and not wasting too much water.
mhv
Registered User
jbf said:
* Your developer converts exposed silver salts into solid silver. It is an alkaline solution (pH > 7)
* Stop bath is an acid (pH < 7) and neutralizes the developer. At this point, nothing more develops. Some people use water instead of an acid stop bath simply because it's cheap, available, and effective. I'm paranoid so I use a stop.
* Fixer removes the unexposed, undeveloped silver salts left over in the film emulsion. Problem is, the fixers we use tend to stick around the gelatin emulsions more than we like. If fixer remains in the emulsion layer, it will do all sorts of nefarious things, like attacking your silver image, and eventually making the image disappear.
* That's why you need to wash your film properly after fixing. Modern film emulsions wash very well, and manufacturer's recommended washing time usually does the job. Fibre based paper have the added problem that the paper base absorbs a lot of fixer. So while the gelatin layer cleans easily, a lot of fixer remains in the paper.
* That's why in that particular case it is really, really useful to use a "hypo-clearing" agent. It will kick out the fixer compounds left in the paper base, and will wash itself easily out of the paper after its job is done.
* Because film is on an acetate or polyester base, only the thin gelatin layer absorbs fixer. That's why you don't need a hypo-clearing agent, because the gelatin layer will become clean pretty quickly.
A last word of advice regarding the Ilford wash sequence: it's good, but if you want to be sure that the fixer leaves the film, you would do well to let the tank sit about 5mins between the agitation and the dumping of the water. That way, the fixer will diffuse gradually from the most concentrated zone (the gelatin layer) to the less concentrated zone (surrounding water). It's like when you put a pouch of tea in hot water, you have to let it diffuse a little before drinking it.