I am Confused about HC110

[Rogier]

Have been developing Tri-X in HC110 at a rental lab in San Francisco.

On the shelf is a can with HC110 Concentrate B.

According to a table I found I have been diluting this B Concentrate by 1:30.

Am I doing this right????????

 

[Chris101]

Has it been working?

HC110 concentrate is a thick liquid with about the same viscosity as maple syrup. In fact, the concentrate is often referred to as HC110 syrup. To get "dilution B" you mix 1 part 'syrup' with 30 parts water. If the stuff in the can is not like syrup, it has already been diluted (and is only good for a short while.) As diluted HC110 ages, it becomes dark.

 

[Lflex]

Advice - buy your own chemicals

 

[Rogier]

Yes it is like syrup.
The results have been very "soft" even extreme differences in exposure from a test roll that I recently shot revealed not much difference between each image (exposes a static subject from ISO 100 - 800).
Pre-soaked the Tri-x for 1 minute and developed for 8 minutes at 68F.
First minute constant agitation then once every 30 seconds...

 

[delft]

It might be that 'Concentrate B' indicates 'Dilution B', which is HC110-speak for a 1:32 dilution of the thick, syrupy developer in it's undiluted form. In that case, diluting it further by 1:30 would have given you a weak, powerless potion.
See this page for the ins and outs of HC110.

Good luck,

Dirk

 

[Rogier]

On the Original HC110 can reads Dilution B

Delft I have been using the same website as you referred to.

So my confusion is, do I have to dilute this B mixture further (1:30) before use or is "Dillution B" already diluted?


Screen Shot 2011-08-11 at 1.16.22 AM by Rogier Diver, on Flickr

 

[Chris101]

On the Original HC110 can reads Dilution B

Delft I have been using the same website as you referred to.

So my confusion is, do I have to dilute this B mixture further (1:30) before use or is "Dillution B" already diluted?

...

HC110 syrup that I have used comes in a plastic bottle. I don't know anything about a can labeled either Concentrate B (as per your OP) or Dilution B (as in the above quoted post.)

In Europe they also sell HC110 that is about 1/3 as concentrated as regular HC110 syrup. So I guess it is important to ask: where are you?

By the way, the working solutions of HC110 (all the dilutions) are straw colored liquids with a viscosity similar to water, and a slightly slippery feel to them.

Your results DO sound as if you are under developing. 8 minutes at 68F should NOt result in under development!

 

[Mablo]

I live in Europe but I've never seen 'European variant' HC-110 on sale. All I ever see is the normal US variant where the B dilution is 1:31.

For Rogier, the HC-110 concentrate or syrup is almost like jelly. Impossible to develop anything in it. I' guessing what you have used is ready made HC-110 B-dilution which you should use as it is. By diluting it 1:32 again you actually make dilution H which is also very usable but you need to double your (B-dilution) development time.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Rogier: until you find out what is in the "can", you will be stumbling hopelessly in the dark. Why not ask someone at the rental lab?

Kodak's actual instructions (which no one usually follows) is to dilute the syrup 1:3 for a stock solution, then further dilute that 1:7 (total 1:32) to get Dilution B for use.

So you don't know if you are starting off with syrup from the bottle, a stock solution which has been diluted 1:3 or ready to use diluted 1:32. Those are huge differences.

 

[maddoc]

Especially with HC-110 in low concentrations I would never pre-soak a 135 film because the active developer ingredients diffuse slower into the wet emulsion (different from 120 or 4x5 sheet films) and thus the process takes longer and as others have mentioned, make sure what concentration the HC-110 in that can really has (and how old it is).

I always make the 1:3 stock solution and then dilute the necessary part of stock solution with water 1:7. If you use a 500ml tank and would start from the HC-110 syrup then you deal with 500 / (1 + 32) = 15.16 ml of syrup, not easy to measure even when using a syringe due to the high viscosity. The stock solution kept in a dark and cool fridge easily has a life time of two month.

 

[Rogier]

:bang:I will call the lab today and find out

 

[Rogier]

Course of confusion solved........

I just called Raykophoto in San Francisco and asked what actually is inside the HC110 Dilution B container.

Answer:
Ah well ehh we dilute it ourselves with water :bang:
And what is the ratio you mix t with?
Ehh well I think you have to mix it again with 1:7 or so :bang:
Hmmm
And how old is that mixture?
Well that depends how busy it is, could be a couple of weeks :bang:

Think I will be ordering, a tent, buckets and other stuff to develop my film on the kitchen counter.... 😡

 

[Thardy]

Course of confusion solved........

I just called Raykophoto in San Francisco and asked what actually is inside the HC110 Dilution B container.

Answer:
Ah well ehh we dilute it ourselves with water :bang:
And what is the ratio you mix t with?
Ehh well I think you have to mix it again with 1:7 or so :bang:
Hmmm
And how old is that mixture?
Well that depends how busy it is, could be a couple of weeks :bang:

Think I will be ordering, a tent, buckets and other stuff to develop my film on the kitchen counter.... 😡

Or take your own, concentrate or premixed to the lab. Of course you'd have to test the fixer to make sure it's good.

 

[Termik]

Hmm.. Last time I used HC-110 and Tri-x, I used it in Dilution H, since Dilution B is not recommended due short developing time (read it somewhere). That is 5 ml HC-110 syrup mixed with 310 ml water, in 12 minutes 30 seconds. 20 centigrades. Give or take.

That is for 1 x 135-film.

I might be wrong, anyone please confirm. Was sometime ago. I only use Rollei Retro 100 together with HC-110 today.

Regards

 

[Rob-F]

Just buy yourself some D-76, mix it up, and dilute it 1:1 for use. It's easy; even I can't screw it up; and it will end your HC-110 problems!

 

[Chris101]

Rogier, check Gabor's post above. A 1:3 dilution is the standard stock solution per Kodak's instructions. As long as the developer has not turned very dark, it will work fine. Not many cities have rental darkrooms any more!

ps, I looked at their site. $5/2.50 a roll is a bit pricey. My chemistry costs, using HC110, Kodak/Ilford Rapid Fixer and Photoflo costs about $0.50 a roll, and that includes a PrintFile sleeve! The equipment to develop in my bathroom cost about $80 all told. So yeah, get yourself set up at home!

 

[Turtle]

I was under the impression that the UK/European stuff was less concentrated than the syrup, but I have just checked the full 1L bottle I have and it is listed as diluting 1+31 for Dilution B. Its quite viscous (perhaps similar to olive oil, but certainly not as thick as maple syrup. Mine is not listed as concentrate or syrup and is the only version we get in the UK to my understanding. I am pretty sure a more concentrated form is available in the US. However, if at the end of the day it says to dilute 1+31 to get Dil B then thats what you need to do.

Have you developed with other HC110 before?
What are you comparing your thin negs to?

Once you give a bit more info, there are quite a few comments that might help you solve the problem.

The good news is that when you get this sorted out, the can of syrup should last ages.

I live in Europe but I've never seen 'European variant' HC-110 on sale. All I ever see is the normal US variant where the B dilution is 1:31.

For Rogier, the HC-110 concentrate or syrup is almost like jelly. Impossible to develop anything in it. I' guessing what you have used is ready made HC-110 B-dilution which you should use as it is. By diluting it 1:32 again you actually make dilution H which is also very usable but you need to double your (B-dilution) development time.

 

[Tom A]

Years ago I stopped using the HC 110 dilutions - always gave me a headache trying to figure it out! Now I pour the straight syrup in a 25ml graduate and pour it into the developer beaker (usually a 1500 ml sized one as that will give me enough for 5 rolls in my Paterson tank). I rinse the small graduate several time with water from the larger beaker. It might be 1:50 in the ned or 1:49 or 1:51, depending on much syrup sticks to the sides of the graduate (it is REALLy thick and gooey). So far I haven't seen any difference between the dilutions. Tri X at around 400 is usually 11.5 or 12 min - 30 sec. agitation for the minute and then 3 inversions every 60 sec.
Not a fine grain developer - but tonality is good. It also works very well with the new Tmax2-400 in 1:60 dilution and 12.5 min.
Anything like this - I always go to Flickr and look at other peoples shots. Just tag "HC 110".

 

[semilog]

I never got really satisfying results with HC, especially with TMAX films. Even with Tri-X, Plus-X, and HP5 I always strongly preferred the results with D-76. Now I use XTOL.

Anyway, if you're on RFF you are supposed to use Rodinal and develop stand. It's one of the Rules ;-).

 

[TareqPhoto]

I will have fun with many developers soon even many don't recommend this idea/move, but i am just having fun, so i have XTOL/TMAX/HC110/Diafine/Microphen/Ilfosol3 and soon Caffenol, just will choose specific films for each developer even they all can do the job differently, Ilsofol 3 is better for slower film, fine, Diafine i heard is amazing for push/pull, alright, Microphen is good developer but i bought it to use Delta 3200 which Microphen is recommended here, TMAX is amazing with TMAX films and will see how it will perform with Tri-X as well, XTOL for those 400 films but also great for slower films, not planning to use it for faster films, so i will have time to test all developers [some again as i used them before].