I am off to meet with Professor Noam Chomsky!

[narsuitus]

Raid,

Congratulations on your accomplishment. I would have loved to meet and photograph him.

I admire Chomsky’s work in linguistics. I disagree with his political views. I can never forgive him for his attacks on Skinner and behaviorism. I am envious of his influence on Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. I love the way his radical thinking rattles those of us who are asleep intellectually.

Look forward to seeing your photos.

 

[valdas]

Well, that's ironic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q0Wdk7ek7Q

Well, interesting watching... but while watching I would not not stop thinking of one paradox - the movie criticizes the "power principle" and the propaganda used by those in power, however the movie itself is a perfect propaganda tool, just a different propaganda. This is because the movie is full of omissions and one sided depictions of the history basically showing historical events as "black and white", good (true democratic/people) regimes vs bad (plutocratic). And although in general this documentary gives quite a fair view about the evil side of the "power principle" it does not offer any feasible alternatives to the existing social models. One can feel it sympathizes with anarchist/socialistic movements, but it really fails to prove that this would create a better society. We've seen that most of those so called "democratic" or "people" regimes sooner or later evolves into the society with strong hierarchy where "power principle" takes over in one or another form...

 

[Ranchu]

Yes, I find it interesting and well done propaganda too, and why not?

"We've seen that most of those so called "democratic" or "people" regimes sooner or later evolves into the society with strong hierarchy where "power principle" takes over in one or another form.."

I don't think anyone in the films denies that's possible. Stalin was a Taylorist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJEdDNDsI

 

[valdas]

"We've seen that most of those so called "democratic" or "people" regimes sooner or later evolves into the society with strong hierarchy where "power principle" takes over in one or another form.."

I don't think anyone in the films denies that's possible. Stalin was a Taylorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJEdDNDsI

I am afraid it is not only "the possibility", so far we have not seen any other way. At least I can't think of an example. So what's the point in organizing another revolution involving force (that's what the author of this documentary suggests in some of his interviews) if we know that we will go through more violence, chaos, misery and end up with some new form of tyranny?

 

[Ranchu]

I am afraid it is not only "the possibility", so far we have not seen any other way. At least I can't think of an example. So what's the point in organizing another revolution involving force (that's what the author of this documentary suggests in some of his interviews) if we know that we will go through more violence, chaos, misery and end up with some new form of tyranny?

Here is telesur. In south america there are a few countries that are throwing off imperialists and doing much better than those that don't. It's easy to ignore the present and generalise about hypothetical future outcomes, though, isn't it? Seems like really lazy thinking to me.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHO-WiiZba0

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015...de-unionists-murdered-colombia-last-year.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015...ll-tpp-fast-track-congress-mixed-results.html

 

[kuuan]

..in general this documentary gives quite a fair view about the evil side of the "power principle" it does not offer any feasible alternatives to the existing social models...

to offer solutions for the ideal society is asking a bit much, isn't it? How could anyone, if this docu would rightfully it would be more heavily criticized for that. It's offering a view of historical events that differs from the 'official' one and imo it is doing a rather good job and coming closer to the truth, I am satisfied with that.

 

[valdas]

Here is telesur. In south america there are a few countries that are throwing off imperialists and doing much better than those that don't. It's easy to ignore the present and generalise about hypothetical future outcomes, though, isn't it? Seems like really lazy thinking to me.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHO-WiiZba0

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015...de-unionists-murdered-colombia-last-year.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015...ll-tpp-fast-track-congress-mixed-results.html

I am not aware of any South American country doing better than, say, Nordic countries in Europe with their social model, but still market economies. And I mean absolute population wealth, equality, social care/security.
It is not lazy thinking - all I am saying there are other models which still embrace market economy and are quite reasonable in terms of accommodating capitalism /democracy/equality, however authors suggest is another revolution and uncertainty instead of probably looking at what works the best in today's world in terms of addressing all the issues.

 

[valdas]

to offer solutions for the ideal society is asking a bit much, isn't it?

No it's not. That's how society develops - bright people come up with ideas of how to create, not how to destroy. Even Utopian Socialist came up with the models of better societies (and explanations how that would work) rather than the proposal to demolish the existing. For me it;s very basic, it's like building your own house - before you destroy the one you don't like, you have a pretty good idea what are you building.

 

[Ranchu]

How Society Develops

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...y-move-cost-him-kochs-and-probably-nomination

 

[kuuan]

No it's not. That's how society develops - bright people come up with ideas of how to create, not how to destroy. Even Utopian Socialist came up with the models of better societies (and explanations how that would work) rather than the proposal to demolish the existing. For me it;s very basic, it's like building your own house - before you destroy the one you don't like, you have a pretty good idea what are you building.

Trying to destroy the existing to substitute with something different and new that has not been tried out imo would be a fatal mistake, very painful and harmful. However not being content with the existing, uncovering it's failures and shortcoming is the needed prerequisite to correct them and push for improvements, which imo is the only sane way.
Society must be aware of it's shortcomings and need people to make them so. This docu is doing that rather well. It's not up for a historical documentary to offer solutions, better it only hints at possible alternatives and so it does. It's the base that has to be established first on which thinkers can develop on and in the end it's up to us all, the society, to agree on right directions for improvement and to make the push.

 

[valdas]

How Society Develops

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...y-move-cost-him-kochs-and-probably-nomination

I think many of us (at least me) agree on what's wrong with the current
system (at least in US). That's not my point. I don't need the evidence how bad it is, I know it myself. My point is that movies like this proposes no solution although it pretends it does.

 

[Ranchu]

Your point is irrelevent, the people who made the film taught you something you didn't know. They don't owe you anything more than that. I noticed how you tried to turn what I said about several countries in south america doing better now that they've thrown off imperialists, into whether these countries are doing better than Finland. Intellectual dishonesty like that means I don't need to bother with you. It's lazy and boring and useless.

🙂

 

[valdas]

Your point is irrelevent. I noticed how you tried to turn what I said about several countries in south america doing better now that they've thrown off imperialists, into whether these countries are doing better than Finland. Dishonesty like that means I don't need to bother with you.

🙂

Frankly - you have not provided any evidence on how any specific country is doing better is a specific social model vs another one in a sustainable way (with numbers etc). And yes, you can do pretty well for a couple of years when you through off imperialist (or whoever) then raise salaries/benefits, print some money, borrow some money (without the ability to repay) - yes you can do better for quite a while...

 

[Ranchu]

I don't serve you, buddy. You are responsible for your own education. If you want one, you'd better get started. I gave you the links, I'm not going to wipe your nose for you too.

 

[valdas]

I don't serve you, buddy. You are responsible for your own education. If you want one, you'd better get started. I gave you the links, I'm not going to wipe your nose for you too.

nice try to push through your propaganda. i take care of my education you take care of yours...

 

[semordnilap]

Raid, sounds like a great meeting and an interesting conversation.

Do post a picture if you can... I'll wade through the vitriol in the thread to find it.

 

[Lucadomi]

I studied Chomsky's linguistic theory back in Italy. More recently, I went to a speech he gave here in NY to remember Edward Said. I am always impressed by the amount of knowledge he has. His analysis of colonialism and imperialism was very honest. I guess it would be interesting to know his relationship with art and photography...and photojournalism!

 

[Monochrom]

Noam chomsky is like god nowadays, everybody wants a piece of him.

I will make plaster idols with his shape, i now i´ll earn some money selling them on ebay.

 

[DominikDUK]

T-Shirts they are easier to sell and Screen printing is a semi photographic process 🙂 Maybe Raid can take a photograph of Chomsky smoking a cigar.

 

[Lucadomi]

He does not seem to be very much loved here in the US for obvious reasons.