kb244
Well-known
Have here an odd-duck of a "Leica" branded screwmount camera. But theres some discreperencies.
- I can't find this model anywhere in the book or the McKeown's camera guide
- The top while it looks like a rangefinder but has no guts, its merely a cover with a viewfinder window, nothing more.
- Even though the top looks like it has a rangefinder, there is absolutely no way that it could be as I mentioned above, and because on the lens mount theres no rangefinder coupling what-so-ever.
- Theres no shutter curtain nor looks like was ever designed with one (thus why the lens is a leaf shutter style).
- There is no serial number at all on the body.
- Frame counter does work tho it doesnt 'stop' you each frame kind of a click feeling
- It doesn't like a standard 35mm cartridge you can get it in 'most of the way' but not enough to close the bottom. But it will rewind and everything
The bottom plate has "Germany" and "Open" "Close" by the dial. upon taking the bottom off there is the clasic loading instructions in german, english, french and spanish (I've only known them to have either only german, or english and german).
There is a copper clip to apply preasure to the metal preasure plate. On top of the camera it says Leica in the classic scripture, and then Ernst Leitz Wetzlar D.R.P. under it like most did.
The lens is collapsible and has a rangefinder coupling. Lens around center says 50mm Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss Tessar Series 1c Pat Feb 24 1903 1894921 and appears to have a compound shutter with the serial 1536520, three shutter modes M, B, T, shutter speeds from 1 to 300, and aperture range from 3.5 to 16.
It's really quite an odd duck.
- I can't find this model anywhere in the book or the McKeown's camera guide
- The top while it looks like a rangefinder but has no guts, its merely a cover with a viewfinder window, nothing more.
- Even though the top looks like it has a rangefinder, there is absolutely no way that it could be as I mentioned above, and because on the lens mount theres no rangefinder coupling what-so-ever.
- Theres no shutter curtain nor looks like was ever designed with one (thus why the lens is a leaf shutter style).
- There is no serial number at all on the body.
- Frame counter does work tho it doesnt 'stop' you each frame kind of a click feeling
- It doesn't like a standard 35mm cartridge you can get it in 'most of the way' but not enough to close the bottom. But it will rewind and everything
The bottom plate has "Germany" and "Open" "Close" by the dial. upon taking the bottom off there is the clasic loading instructions in german, english, french and spanish (I've only known them to have either only german, or english and german).
There is a copper clip to apply preasure to the metal preasure plate. On top of the camera it says Leica in the classic scripture, and then Ernst Leitz Wetzlar D.R.P. under it like most did.
The lens is collapsible and has a rangefinder coupling. Lens around center says 50mm Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss Tessar Series 1c Pat Feb 24 1903 1894921 and appears to have a compound shutter with the serial 1536520, three shutter modes M, B, T, shutter speeds from 1 to 300, and aperture range from 3.5 to 16.
It's really quite an odd duck.
laptoprob
back to basics
Odd is an understatement. Must be an early trial in the days of testing various options in shutters, lenses etc. Before the choice was definetely made for the focal plane shutter, various systems of shutters and lenses were tested on basic camera shells. Remember this type and size of camera was absolutely new in the 20's. Why the rangefinder top was added is a mystery to me too.
fascinating...
fascinating...
kb244
Well-known
What confuses me though, is wouldn't a prototype be 100% german or lacking words, and be in metrics instead of 'feet'.
350D_user
B+W film devotee
Some lenses were in feet, some were in metres. Why the two sorts, I've no idea.
kb244
Well-known
Is there any ways to confirm this is a prototype as oposed to a counterfeit (Though a counterfeit would have been marked with a serial number and made to look more complete).
ferider
Veteran
There was an early Leica I with copal shutter.
But this one looks like a hand-modified III to me, due to the filling of the slow shutter
speed dial, and the mount. War-time.
Might also want to check with MJ Small due to the LTM mount ...
Best,
Roland.
But this one looks like a hand-modified III to me, due to the filling of the slow shutter
speed dial, and the mount. War-time.
Might also want to check with MJ Small due to the LTM mount ...
Best,
Roland.
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
i guess it's the compound shutter lens from the early leica prototypes, put onto a III's body. Or else a prototype factory modified to be a later model with a new top casing??
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Odd, indeed. Somebody had too much time in his/her (oh, his, who am I kidding?) hands, I guess. I also guess that he wasn't a fan of the shutter cloth, and demon shutter speeds of 1/500s or faster.
Looks like Jerome S. Miller was a bit too zealous with his possessiveness...
Looks like Jerome S. Miller was a bit too zealous with his possessiveness...
ferider
Veteran
Here are pictures of the Leica B with lens shutter:
Roland.
Roland.
laptoprob
back to basics
So if it is an original, the screwmount (with feet markings) and rf top plate were added later.
tinker, tinker.
tinker, tinker.
murrayb53
Established
I highly doubt it's a prototype. It could have been done by a skilled individual would wanted to create his own "Leicanstein".
It really could have been put together with parts from numerous camera's. The individuals in the FSU and Poland have made themselves a nice cottage industry by creating some artful, fab fakes. This could be one of them.
Steve
It really could have been put together with parts from numerous camera's. The individuals in the FSU and Poland have made themselves a nice cottage industry by creating some artful, fab fakes. This could be one of them.
Steve
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
It could be that the camera has it's original top cover, with RF housing, if the lens mount is original on the camera. The 0 at twelve o'clock could indicate that it has a standardized flange to focal plane dimension making interchangeable RF coupled lenses feasible. Why it was modified to it's present condition is interesting. It sure looks like a very skillful conversion to me. One very unique camera for sure. Anyway just guesses on my part.
Bob
Bob
John Shriver
Well-known
Perhaps a customized camera for some scientific application. But it doesn't appear that the customization was done by Wetzlar, they would not have left raw brass showing.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I think it started life as a genuine Leica--probably a III. Someone has extensively modified it for some purpose.
BillBingham2
Registered User
The open closed on the bottom looks strange too, I thought it was Auf and Zu (or something like that).
Perhaps something from Leica New York from years ago.
Drop a line to Leica, just to see if they have any ideas. While I doubt it, it might be a camera given to an employee on their way over to the US just before the war.
B2 (;->
Perhaps something from Leica New York from years ago.
Drop a line to Leica, just to see if they have any ideas. While I doubt it, it might be a camera given to an employee on their way over to the US just before the war.
B2 (;->
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
It is probably a custom-made/modified ID or police camera for mug shots.
Fixed focus, those brass plates look like they were made to fit into some sort of larger frame or mounting device.
Maybe some kind of mechanical flash sync.
Fixed focus, those brass plates look like they were made to fit into some sort of larger frame or mounting device.
Maybe some kind of mechanical flash sync.
kb244
Well-known
Edward Felcher said:
It would not be hard at all for me to test it when I get to work tomorrow morning, just one itty bitty problem.... where do you fire the shutter/flash sync on the body itself as theres no shutter release on the body.
Dralowid
Michael
Shutter fired by cable release on sutter, socket at 11 oclock
top plate II not III (no diopter adjustment) but why the cover over the slow shutter speed dial?
No serial number means that parts were probably sourced direct from Leitz somewhere Might be a serial number on top plate itself, under cover, between viewfinder and rangefinder
No collimation spot on back and strap lugs suggests later camera maybe III
Interesting viewfinder window. The more I think of it, however, the more I reckon that both viewfinder and rangefinder were irrelevant in it's particular use.
Odd stuff going on inside, special pressure plate. perhaps used for single shot slides? No rewind lever. Doubt there is much else in the camera.
IMHO, and boy is it humble, I reckon this is a camera modified for some single shot scientific purpose, probably not with normal film, IR? UV?. Would be interesting to know the flange to film distance... Need to think of uses for which a cloth focal plane shutter is useless.
I very much doubt it is based on a Compur Leica. I think the modifications were done in the '30s by a skilled lab techinician.
Congratulations, it's fascinating, how on earth did you find it?
Best
Michael (in search of a black IIIb...)
top plate II not III (no diopter adjustment) but why the cover over the slow shutter speed dial?
No serial number means that parts were probably sourced direct from Leitz somewhere Might be a serial number on top plate itself, under cover, between viewfinder and rangefinder
No collimation spot on back and strap lugs suggests later camera maybe III
Interesting viewfinder window. The more I think of it, however, the more I reckon that both viewfinder and rangefinder were irrelevant in it's particular use.
Odd stuff going on inside, special pressure plate. perhaps used for single shot slides? No rewind lever. Doubt there is much else in the camera.
IMHO, and boy is it humble, I reckon this is a camera modified for some single shot scientific purpose, probably not with normal film, IR? UV?. Would be interesting to know the flange to film distance... Need to think of uses for which a cloth focal plane shutter is useless.
I very much doubt it is based on a Compur Leica. I think the modifications were done in the '30s by a skilled lab techinician.
Congratulations, it's fascinating, how on earth did you find it?
Best
Michael (in search of a black IIIb...)
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
Hi,
the big lever on the front shutter is used to release the shutter. But first you have to cock it with one of the other levers. It might be slef-cocking but I'm no epxert in shutters.
I'd say it is modified for some scientific application. Maybe for a microscope or oscilocope or something like that. The leaf shutter might be needed to avoid banding caused by the focal plane shutter or maybe they needed fast flash syncing.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
the big lever on the front shutter is used to release the shutter. But first you have to cock it with one of the other levers. It might be slef-cocking but I'm no epxert in shutters.
I'd say it is modified for some scientific application. Maybe for a microscope or oscilocope or something like that. The leaf shutter might be needed to avoid banding caused by the focal plane shutter or maybe they needed fast flash syncing.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
mr_phillip
Well-known
Fascinating. I'd have guessed that someone modded it for flash-syncing. Looks like it started life as a IIIa. He could have waited a few years for the IIIf to come along – some people just have no patience
Where did you find it?
Where did you find it?