wintoid
Back to film
My Ikon is on the way back to Matsuiyastore to be replaced, but I have recently bought an M4, so this has been an ideal opportunity to work on my sunny 16. I had no idea it was going to be so easy. I've been carrying a meter to double check my guesses, but really it's not necessary, at least outdoors. I can't believe how easy it is!
For anyone else who is considering a meterless body but put off by fear of being unable to expose correctly, give it a try. It's very liberating!
For anyone else who is considering a meterless body but put off by fear of being unable to expose correctly, give it a try. It's very liberating!
feenej
Well-known
Easy inside too. Indoors I go by the rule, "as much exposure as I can hold, but try to make it sharp if it's not too dark". Actually I was photographing in the fog at sunrise a few days ago and my guess was way, way off, so a meter comes in handy too.
This was a total guess, f4, 1/30 sec. Negative was just right:
This was a total guess, f4, 1/30 sec. Negative was just right:
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Surprising, innit?
What I do, increasingly, is set the shutter speed/aperture on my MP; raise it to my eye; and check the exposure. I'm often right to within 1/2 stop or less, and quite often, if the meter and I disagree, I'll think a bit harder and find that I prefer my exposure anyway.
Cheers,
R.
What I do, increasingly, is set the shutter speed/aperture on my MP; raise it to my eye; and check the exposure. I'm often right to within 1/2 stop or less, and quite often, if the meter and I disagree, I'll think a bit harder and find that I prefer my exposure anyway.
Cheers,
R.
tripod
Well-known
Some exposure situations are easy. Other situations are still tricky for me. A hand held meter is handy to have around. A built in meter is even handier.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Welcome to the club of the "enlightened" ones 
A built in meter makes *me* lazy.
A built in meter makes *me* lazy.
santino
FSU gear head
let's say you guys had five beers, is your guessing still accurate??
BillP
Rangefinder General
Light is now your slave...
You are it's master...
You are no longer in the dark, told what to do by a photocell
Welcome to the sunlit uplands
Join the Sunny f16 Group on Flickr and share your joy!
Regards,
Bill
You are it's master...
You are no longer in the dark, told what to do by a photocell
Welcome to the sunlit uplands
Join the Sunny f16 Group on Flickr and share your joy!
Regards,
Bill
oldgearhead
Member
What about flash, especially off-camera? I think I'll keep my 308S.
It's bigger than my old Weston, but it's lighter. Sunny 16 is alright
with HP5 and color negative film, but my eyes aren't good enough
to use it with digial or E-6 films...
It's bigger than my old Weston, but it's lighter. Sunny 16 is alright
with HP5 and color negative film, but my eyes aren't good enough
to use it with digial or E-6 films...
bmattock
Veteran
Anyone who thinks they can judge proper exposure by eye is fooling themselves. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
R
Roberto
Guest
feenej said:
May you please guess lotto numbers for me?
just send me a PM! R.
BillP
Rangefinder General
bmattock said:
No, that's a sweeping generalisation.
Regards,
Bill
bmattock
Veteran
BillP said:
Not when it is me saying it. I'm really smart. Good looking, too.
Fact is - the human eye is not at all like film or a digital sensor, other than in the fundamental quality that it detects light.
Unlike both, it (working in concert with the brain) adjusts light levels, white balance, and even does HDR inside the 'camera'.
You can't tell what white is - no one can. You can't tell how bright it is - no one can. Our eyes are not calibrated - in lux or in color temperature detection. They tell us what we believe white should be and what level of brightness is acceptable for objects to be distinguished.
Sunny-16 works - because some approximations work most of the time. Go under a bridge and try it. Take photos in a concert hall and adjust the white balance by guessing the Kelvin measurements of the lighting.
When it works, it is a combination of two things - luck, and film or image sensor latitude. Experience may play some role in being a better guesser, but it is still just a guess, and about as likely to be accurate as any guess.
If accurate exposure is not of critical importance - then I say do whatever a person feels comfortable doing. If one does not mind having highlights blown out or blacks muddied up beyond the ability to recover detail, then exposure is not that critical - and I say that not to be sarcastic - many times it does not matter, so fair enough.
But if accurate exposure matters for a given situation, then a proper meter plus the knowledge of how to use it is fundamental.
I have a speedometer on my car and use it. Amazing how often I think I am going a particular speed and find I am driving quite a bit above or below that - even with my lifetime of experience driving.
Eyes are not like film. They do not work the same way. Since the sensor is not an absolute, no amount of 'looking' can provide an accurate 'reading'.
visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
I've been amazed at the improvement in my confidence level ever since I started using the Weston Master V sold to me by a fellow RFFer. I find using incident light metering very easy and VERY accurate. Sure, I can often guesstimate exposures. But, all things being equal, I'd rather not have to. A hand held meter does, however, force me to learn (or re-learn) basic exposure practices; for example, the general rule that caucasian skin tone is not 18% grey, it actually requires about 1 stop increased exposure.
wintoid
Back to film
Bill, I hear you, but by the same token, an automatic camera doesn't know the difference between black, white or grey, and exposes each of these the same without intervention. Any intervention (exposure compensation) is also an approximation based on experience and judgement. I suppose spot and incident metering can be considered to be accurate if done properly.
Anyway, as an approximation, it's good enough for me. Part of the joy of it is the fact I'm attempting incident metering, whereas my experience with cameras is all reflected metering. I'm quite sure that in tricky lighting, I would rather be using an automatic camera. That's why I'll be keeping the Ikon when it comes back from Matsuiyastore.
Anyway, as an approximation, it's good enough for me. Part of the joy of it is the fact I'm attempting incident metering, whereas my experience with cameras is all reflected metering. I'm quite sure that in tricky lighting, I would rather be using an automatic camera. That's why I'll be keeping the Ikon when it comes back from Matsuiyastore.
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BillP
Rangefinder General
bmattock said:
Yeh yeh, I know all that, and can't disagree with the "science bit". But the point is, with a combination of Sunny-16, experience and film latitude, you can get "proper" exposure, where proper=what you wanted, or visualised. Exposure is not an absolute, it is relative to the result you want to achieve. One man's overexposure is another's high-key, and so on.
Regards,
Bill
steve kessel
steve kessel
Oh dear, I just went and bought a meter on ebay.
BillP
Rangefinder General
steve kessel said:
Nothing wrong with owning one, Steve, it's the using that has to be done sparingly
Regards,
Bill
aad
Not so new now.
I almost never use a meter anymore. But Mr. Mattock has a point, it's easy to forget the built in compensation of the eye, especially in low light.
Heck, I've taken to changing my "landmark" exposure base d on the calender. It's Sunny 11 after September and before April. And if it's 120 film, I do use the meter.
Heck, I've taken to changing my "landmark" exposure base d on the calender. It's Sunny 11 after September and before April. And if it's 120 film, I do use the meter.
Joop van Heijgen
Established
bmattock said:
Tom Abrahamsson said:
"There is nothing boring per se with good exposures, but there are no surprises either! Sometimes I find that we are obsessed with correctly exposed shots and that achiving these takes to much time (fiddling with aperture rings and speed dials) rather than shoot "now". It sometimes is akin to "chimping" the digital. Far to often you see digital shooters staring at the back of the camera, whilst the really good shots are happening in front of them!"
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
bmattock said:
there are gaffers around the world cackling at the arrogance of this statement. Many, if not most of the gaffers that I have worked with over the age of 45 dont use meters for exposure. You'll see them using color temp meters frequently and often for ratios, but when you are a big league gaffer, you had better have big league skills and many of those guys can and do work without meters.
you dont judge proper exposure by eye. you judge it by experience.
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