paulfish4570
Veteran
It will take a while to raise the cash. A search of this site and ebay tells me a body in good-to-excellent shooter shape runs $250 to $350. Am I close?
The reason I chose two models for my goal is that they do not have the separate slow-speeds dial on the front, which seem to be problematic. Is there another LTM model I should consider?
The reason I chose two models for my goal is that they do not have the separate slow-speeds dial on the front, which seem to be problematic. Is there another LTM model I should consider?
paulfish4570
Veteran
And what is the deal with black dial vs. red dial?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Ehm, why?
I would consider the IIIa, does have slow times and a 1.5x magnification. Very nice to focus with fast lenses. Not that expensive either, I bought mine for EUR 180 with shipping, approx USD 220.
Robert Lai
Well-known
The IIF also features 1.5x magnification in the finder. It's just a IIIF without the slow speed escapement. Leica did allow you to upgrade the IIF to a IIIF by sending the camera back to the factory to get the slow speed escapement, as an option back in the late 50s and early 60s.
Functionally, no difference in the IIF black dial and red dials except that the flash synch delay settings are different. You can use electronic flash with 1/25 and 1/50 speeds on the RD, using a delay setting of "0", and "20" respectively. The BD has different delay numbers.
The shutter speed scale is also the older scale with 1/25, 1/50, 1/75 (yes, a half stop), 1/100, 1/200, etc. The RD tops out at 1/1000, some of the BD top out at 1/500. The shutter was improved in the RD (don't know all the details), but I think it's basically the same shutter as in the IIIG and the M3. BD was an earlier shutter design.
To be honest, I prefer the IIIG more, as it has the modern shutter speed sequence, and using flash is a lot simpler without having to keep moving the flash delay synchronizer. Yes, I do use flash on a Leica, as heretical as that is!
But, the IIF is a lot lighter, and has a wonderfully charming look and feel in how it works.
Functionally, no difference in the IIF black dial and red dials except that the flash synch delay settings are different. You can use electronic flash with 1/25 and 1/50 speeds on the RD, using a delay setting of "0", and "20" respectively. The BD has different delay numbers.
The shutter speed scale is also the older scale with 1/25, 1/50, 1/75 (yes, a half stop), 1/100, 1/200, etc. The RD tops out at 1/1000, some of the BD top out at 1/500. The shutter was improved in the RD (don't know all the details), but I think it's basically the same shutter as in the IIIG and the M3. BD was an earlier shutter design.
To be honest, I prefer the IIIG more, as it has the modern shutter speed sequence, and using flash is a lot simpler without having to keep moving the flash delay synchronizer. Yes, I do use flash on a Leica, as heretical as that is!
But, the IIF is a lot lighter, and has a wonderfully charming look and feel in how it works.
raid
Dad Photographer
Paul,
I would get a Canon P instead. It is far more practical for use than the IIc.
The other option is a Contax G1 with the Planar 45mm/2. The set is not costly.
I have a IIIf and a Canon IVsb, but I ue them far less often than the two cameras I suggested above.
I would get a Canon P instead. It is far more practical for use than the IIc.
The other option is a Contax G1 with the Planar 45mm/2. The set is not costly.
I have a IIIf and a Canon IVsb, but I ue them far less often than the two cameras I suggested above.
paulfish4570
Veteran
Aieeeee! All of the ideas and options ... 
raid
Dad Photographer
Paul,
My suggestion is to stay away from the old Leica LTM cameras.
My suggestion is to stay away from the old Leica LTM cameras.
paulfish4570
Veteran
Well, maybe so Raid, but they sure are pretty.
But no G1, either. Why, that thing has to have batteries ...
But no G1, either. Why, that thing has to have batteries ...
je2a3
je
Consider the older Leica II...
raid
Dad Photographer
Get what makes you happy, Paul.
I have way too many cameras.
The G1 has AF which makes focusing very simple. All images come out very sharp.
Carrying a spare battery solves the problem.
I have way too many cameras.
The G1 has AF which makes focusing very simple. All images come out very sharp.
Carrying a spare battery solves the problem.
paulfish4570
Veteran
Raid, I do not have near as many as you, but I have too many, and yet the eye still wanders.
I am fascinated by industrial artworks, and the mechanical Leicas qualify, among others ...
I am fascinated by industrial artworks, and the mechanical Leicas qualify, among others ...
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V
Vic
Guest
Read this by Frank Petronio, it's god a lot of good information:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1388665&postcount=56
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1388665&postcount=56
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Raid,
Why? Not arguing, just interested. Personally I'd stay even further away from old Canons, simply because they're bulky and ugly next to an old Leica, and (sightly) harder to get fixed: far more repairers are familiar with old Leicas.
@Paul: What problems have you heard about with the slow speed train? Sure, they get sticky from lack of use, but it's a cheap repair. I must have had a dozen or more screw-mount Leicas from 1969-1979, and recall no problems with the slow speeds. Then again, that was 30-40 years ago.
I used the slow speeds quite a bit, but that was partly because you couldn't get Delta 3200 in those days. Even if it had been available, it would have been too expensive for me in the early years. But low-light shooting with long speeds was very much a part of photography from the 30s to the 50s and if you want the 'vintage experience' maybe slow film is the way to go. Having just checked the Frank Petronio piece, I have to say that I disagree with a lot of it. That's from experience: for half a decade, I probably used screw-mount Leicas more than my only other camera at the time, a Pentax SV.
Cheers,
R.
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Robert Lai
Well-known
Well, I can give you my experience: if you don't have slow speeds, you will need to use flash one of these days. The IIF is a great way to be minimalist and yet have everything that you need.
I first started out with a Russian FED-1. Great little camera, except no slow speeds, no provision for flash, and the killer was that it was compatible only with its own lens. This is basically what the early Leica II were like. Within its limited parameters, it was quite a competent picture taker.
Then I got a FED-2, because it had the standard Leica lens register of 28.8mm, and it had a Russian version of the Leica M combined RF/VF. I found that I liked the Leica II style separated RF/VF better. The 0.7x magnification finder in the FED-2 made focusing difficult, especially for 135mm lenses where the distances are longer. The 1.5x magnification of the Leica II style cameras made focusing so much easier, even for the 135mm lenses.
I'm now Russian camera free, although I kept a really beautiful Jupiter-9 that actually focuses properly (after CLA) from 1.15m to infinity on my Leicas.
The IIF was my next camera, and it pretty much has everything that I need.
The thing that people don't pay attention to is that all of these cameras are over 50 years old, and if they haven't been serviced, they need service. I've spent far more than the purchase price of the IIF to have it brought back up to spec, and it was not a beater to start with. First it went to Youxin Ye to get the shutters up to spec. Then, while Youxin was in China, I sent it to Don Goldberg to change the RF beamsplitter. That reallly made it a joy to focus with this camera - the clarity and contrast in the finder is incredible. Now it's back to Don Goldberg along with a IIIG to have all my cameras and all my long lenses focus properly in a mass collimation festival. (I succumbed to the IIIG because I wanted the compensating VF frame lines for the 50+90mm lenses, and the slow speeds, and the big viewfinder!)
The older the camera that you get, the more you're going to have to put into repairs to get decades of neglect out of it. But, afterwards you'll have a really nice picture taker.
Heck, even my much younger Nikon F3 (ca. 1983) finally needed service after more than 20 years (flash synch was flaky due to a loosened wire, shutter was off by more than 1/6 f/stop). Yet, I don't see people going around to warn "Paul, don't get a Nikon F-mount camera".
I first started out with a Russian FED-1. Great little camera, except no slow speeds, no provision for flash, and the killer was that it was compatible only with its own lens. This is basically what the early Leica II were like. Within its limited parameters, it was quite a competent picture taker.
Then I got a FED-2, because it had the standard Leica lens register of 28.8mm, and it had a Russian version of the Leica M combined RF/VF. I found that I liked the Leica II style separated RF/VF better. The 0.7x magnification finder in the FED-2 made focusing difficult, especially for 135mm lenses where the distances are longer. The 1.5x magnification of the Leica II style cameras made focusing so much easier, even for the 135mm lenses.
I'm now Russian camera free, although I kept a really beautiful Jupiter-9 that actually focuses properly (after CLA) from 1.15m to infinity on my Leicas.
The IIF was my next camera, and it pretty much has everything that I need.
The thing that people don't pay attention to is that all of these cameras are over 50 years old, and if they haven't been serviced, they need service. I've spent far more than the purchase price of the IIF to have it brought back up to spec, and it was not a beater to start with. First it went to Youxin Ye to get the shutters up to spec. Then, while Youxin was in China, I sent it to Don Goldberg to change the RF beamsplitter. That reallly made it a joy to focus with this camera - the clarity and contrast in the finder is incredible. Now it's back to Don Goldberg along with a IIIG to have all my cameras and all my long lenses focus properly in a mass collimation festival. (I succumbed to the IIIG because I wanted the compensating VF frame lines for the 50+90mm lenses, and the slow speeds, and the big viewfinder!)
The older the camera that you get, the more you're going to have to put into repairs to get decades of neglect out of it. But, afterwards you'll have a really nice picture taker.
Heck, even my much younger Nikon F3 (ca. 1983) finally needed service after more than 20 years (flash synch was flaky due to a loosened wire, shutter was off by more than 1/6 f/stop). Yet, I don't see people going around to warn "Paul, don't get a Nikon F-mount camera".
FrankS
Registered User
The slow-speed escapement on the Leica's seem to be reliable. It was not reliable on the Zorki 3, which was quickly replaced by the Zorki 3M.
The Leica screwmount cameras are very compact, and fairly light.
The Leica screwmount cameras are very compact, and fairly light.
paulfish4570
Veteran
All right, good advice from all. There is much to chew on. As for the slow-speed dial, I must have read in more than one place the slow speeds get cranky. So, that is out the window. Does anyone know the weight of a II or III body?
FrankS
Registered User
Paul, don't be so easily swayed!
paulfish4570
Veteran
I'm not waffling, Frank. I'm debating in my head.
I threw the fear of slow speed crankiness out the window, making the IIIs eligible for consideration. Besides, I do not shoot slower than 1/30 handheld anyhow, and I have SLRs and a TLR for tripod work ...
I threw the fear of slow speed crankiness out the window, making the IIIs eligible for consideration. Besides, I do not shoot slower than 1/30 handheld anyhow, and I have SLRs and a TLR for tripod work ...
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Well, and the latter makes the IIIs ineligible for consideration again.
Seeing how you've been zigzagging and backtracking several times in this thread, why don't you just give yourself some time to get a clear head and make up your mind about what you need?
In the meantime, you can always get a Zorki-1 to try whether you actually like shooting classic Leicas, and whether you actually need that slow speed train or not.