Leica LTM I have a goal: IIc or IIf by Jan. 1

[paulfish4570]

rx, I am trying to clear my head. All of these opinions - and my going back and forth in the thread - are how I do so.
Anyhow, I looked up some camera body weights, which is important to mitigating hand tremors:
IIIg 14.56 ounces
Bessa R 13.93 ounces
M2 20.5 ounces
Canon P 22.08 ounces
SP1000 21.12 ounces
Konica SIII 24.6 ounces
Yashica Lynx 14E IC 30 ounces

These are significant differences. The IIIg is less than an ounce heavier than the Bessa. I handle/handhold my SP1000, SIII and Lynx very well, with consistent image crispness. The M and P are right in there with the SP1000. Weight makes a difference - for me ...

 

[raid]

Anyhow, I looked up some camera body weights, which is important to mitigating hand tremors:

...

Paul,
I recommended cameras based on the goal to minimize such effects for you. In the end, it is a personal choice.

Yes, these LTM Leica camera are beautifully built.

 

[raid]

Dear Raid,

Why? Not arguing, just interested. Personally I'd stay even further away from old Canons, simply because they're bulky and ugly next to an old Leica, and (sightly) harder to get fixed: far more repairers are familiar with old Leicas.

Hi Roger,
I was thinking of these points:


loading film

removing a roll

looking through the small VF


A Canon P allows faster and easier [for most people] loading and unloading film with a camera back that swings open. Its VF is larger than any VF for a II or a III except a IIIg maybe.

The Canon P is a good looking camera [to me].

I love using a Leica LTM camera with wide angle lenses.
Still, I was making suggestions to Paul personally and for his situation.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The film leader must be trimmed for the Leica, Canon, Nicca, Leotax, Fed, Zorki, and other Bottom Loading cameras. It does not have to be trimmed for the alternatives mentioned.

Interesting to see how that Lynx weighed in. The Canon P and a 50/1.4 or chrome 50/1.8 is about the same weight, and "about" the same size.

 

[paulfish4570]

Raid, I know that and thank you sincerely.
Such passionate advice by camera users rather than theorists is why i love this forum so much.
All right, I no longer have a goal of owning a Leica II or III (and I wish I could change the title of this thread). The weight just is not there, and let me tell you, it makes a difference for my hands.
So, for an interchangeable lens RF body, it appears the M series makes weight, as does the Canon P and 7 series. I did not bother to research Nikon RFs because of cost. I have 3 LTM fsu lenses, and like what I get from them. I had a Canon 50/1.8 on my Bessa R, which was wonderful. Thirty years ago, I had an Elmar 50/2.8 on an M3. I liked what I got with that lens.
Average CLA cost for M and Canon P?

 

[raid]

rx, I am trying to clear my head. All of these opinions - and my going back and forth in the thread - are how I do so.
Anyhow, I looked up some camera body weights, which is important to mitigating hand tremors:
IIIg 14.56 ounces
Bessa R 13.93 ounces
M2 20.5 ounces
Canon P 22.08 ounces
SP1000 21.12 ounces
Konica SIII 24.6 ounces
Yashica Lynx 14E IC 30 ounces

These are significant differences. The IIIg is less than an ounce heavier than the Bessa. I handle/handhold my SP1000, SIII and Lynx very well, with consistent image crispness. The M and P are right in there with the SP1000. Weight makes a difference - for me ...

Paul,
Aim at a camera that you would be comfortable using. Do not be swayed by popularity of one type over another. If weight and maybe even bulk is important to you, take such factors into account.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Figure a CLA by a shop such as Essex or KEH to run ~$200 for a Leica M and ~$150 for a Canon P or Canon 7.

 

[paulfish4570]

Hey Brian: are you saying I should cut the leader square on film for my FED-2? Even though it is a back-loader, it seems the film does not travel squarely with uncut film, leaving a bit of image into sprocket holes on one side ...

 

[paulfish4570]

Thanks, Brian.

 

[paulfish4570]

My FED is more difficult to load than any of my swing back bodies ...

 

[raid]

My FED is more difficult to load than any of my swing back bodies ...

... this is my point, Paul. I expected this to be the case.

 

[raid]

Brian,
I would first use the camera to see if it works properly before sending it off for a CLA. My latest addition [an olive Canon P] needs a CLA.

 

[paulfish4570]

Time for a gospel of Dirty Harry citation: "A man's got to know his limitations."
Thank you all for your passionate, learned advice.
I no longer have a goal of a II or III Leica by Jan. 1.
My goal now is for a Canon P or or a Leica M, probably an M2.

 

[paulfish4570]

An olive P? might you post a photo in LTM Copies?

 

[raid]

I will soon have the camera "pose" for a P family photo with a chrome P and a black P.

 

[Bingley]

Paul -- While I regularly use and love a IIIc, Raid makes a very good point about the Canon P in terms of ease of film loading and removal, and general handling. And I agree w/ him that the P is a very sleek looking camera. The P is also rugged, well made, and great to use w/ 50 or 100 lenses. KEH is currently advertising a P in EX condition for $265. I got my P CLA'd several years ago, and the shutter is as quiet as the shutter on my recently CLA'd M2.

I also had a Canon 7 for awhile. That, too, is a nice user rf w/ some heft to it. The 35 framelines on the Canon 7 are a lot easier to use, IMO, than those on the P (I wear glasses). The 7 is somewhat bulkier, and feels larger, than the P.

 

[gliderbee]

[Personally I'd stay even further away from old Canons, simply because they're bulky and ugly next to an old Leica, and (sightly) harder to get fixed: far more repairers are familiar with old Leicas.
[/QUOTE]

Ugly ? Bulky ? Maybe those repairers are more familiar with old Leicas because they need repair more often 😉 ?

I like my Canon IVSB's, and they never have given me any trouble at all. The shutters are the quitest of all my cameras and smooth like butter (except the leafshutters of course).

As for weight: I think Paul likes his cameras a bit on the heavy side.

Here are some pictures and weight-indications (BTW, I can't really compare, as I'm used to grams ... How many oz in a lb 😱 ?

 

[FrankS]

If the goal was to find a heavy bulky camera, Leica screwmounts are not the way to go.

(I've had a Canon screwmount, but much prefer the way the rounded ends of a Barnack fit the hand.)

 

[Bingley]

Paul - Here are a couple of shots to give you an idea of relative size of Canon rfs. The Canon P, although quite sleek, is slightly larger than a Leica M body.

And here's my now-sold Canon 7 next to a Bessa T. I don't have a shot of the 7 and P together, and I did not own a Leica camera at the time I took this shot:

 

[paulfish4570]

I like the diopter on that IVSB. and I much appreciate the weights, gliderbee.
The IVSB's 18.2 ounces put it right between the Bessa and M in body weight. The addition of that lovely chrome-on-brass lens puts the total to almost 30 ounces, or about the same as the Yashica Lynx.

Frank, a 35-percent gain in weight does not have to be bulky; i.e., the M and the Spotmatic series.