paulfish4570
Veteran
... and it did so once in about 200 snaps at shutter speeds from 1/30 to 1/500. The only "cap" came on 1/500, out of 40 or so snaps. Is this worth trying to adjust?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
You do realise that when it decides to cap it will do it on that 'perfect shot!' 
I think mine caps occasionally too but I'm not game to pull it apart to fix it ... they seem like such a simple camera but I'm not quite brave enough ... so it stays in the cupboard!
I think mine caps occasionally too but I'm not game to pull it apart to fix it ... they seem like such a simple camera but I'm not quite brave enough ... so it stays in the cupboard!
paulfish4570
Veteran
Well, of course it would, Keith!
I really like the rascal, especially the loooooooooong rangefinder base ...
I really like the rascal, especially the loooooooooong rangefinder base ...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Well, of course it would, Keith!
I really like the rascal, especially the loooooooooong rangefinder base ...
Hmmm ... they are a good camera and mine was my first official foray into film. A few years on and thousands of dollars spent on gear I look at the pics I took with that Fed and wonder about the sense of it all!
Maybe I should just grit my teeth and see if I can fix it ... if I fail I'll only be forty five dollars worse off after all!
bgb
Well-known
maybe you could just send it to Oleg and get it fixed proper mate
i sold my first one (a pretty shade of blue it was) but was fortunate enough to be given one recently which i will not be parting with ... they are just so cute !
i sold my first one (a pretty shade of blue it was) but was fortunate enough to be given one recently which i will not be parting with ... they are just so cute !
fanshaw
Well-known
How can you fix it? I would only be possible to adjust it on a trial and error basis, because there is no guaranteed method of setting up the shutter. If you notice capping only on one in 200 shots you would need to use a lot of film to show that the problem had been solved. You might also find out rather more quickly that the problem had been made worse.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Mine needs it rather worse than that, Paul, so I'll find out for you...
I lost practically all my agricultural shots for the FSU contest. Capping for 10 frames in a row. (I am 99% sure I remembered to take the lens cap off; there is the faintest bit of exposure on some of those frames but then I was using a vented shade, so it's not conclusive evidence.)
The rest of that roll and another full roll were perfect, however the B setting is still not working. So I clearly need to get in there and clean!
I lost practically all my agricultural shots for the FSU contest. Capping for 10 frames in a row. (I am 99% sure I remembered to take the lens cap off; there is the faintest bit of exposure on some of those frames but then I was using a vented shade, so it's not conclusive evidence.)
The rest of that roll and another full roll were perfect, however the B setting is still not working. So I clearly need to get in there and clean!
wolves3012
Veteran
Paul,
If you have access to a CRT computer monitor or TV (LCD/plasma etc will not do) then you can try adjusting the shutter blind tensions as per the sticky in this sub-forum. Capping tends to happen only on higher speeds. My experience suggests that it's very hard to make the FSU shutters cap without gross mis-adjustment - IF they are lubricated properly and running freely. That means that capping is *normally* a sign of CLA being needed. The "monitor" test will also show if there is a problem to start with.
Before someone jumps in and whinges about FSU reliability, let me just add that I've just (hopefully) fixed the very same issue on my Leica IIIC.
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brachal
Refrigerated User
You mean I shouldn't expect a 40 or 50 year old camera to work without a CLA? That's what's so great about digital ... fewer moving parts means my D200 will still be going strong in 2050. :angel:
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
It's just a photographic version of 'Russian Roulette' really ... prevents taking pictures from ever becoming boring!
fidget
Lemon magnet
This has been an annoying feature of too many of my FSU cameras as well.
If your shutter problem is as your earlier post and example, it is like this one of mine (from a while back, I don't save the scans of these anymore!)
As was neatly worked out by a reply (can't find the thread now, my apologies), this area of under or non-exposure was created on the RHS of the film gate? My example is on the LHS of the scene as I held the camera, so happened on the RHS of the gate.
If I am correct about the terminology, capping is when one curtain catches up with the other and causes a fairly sharp cut-off in the exposure. This is normally seen on the RHS of the image and is "usually" due to impediments in the curtain path or damage to the curtains or drums/tapes.
What my images show (and maybe yours too) is a release problem. This is generally only seen on the fastest speed and can be annoyingly intermittent, until you really want the picture out come out right.
What happens is that the second curtain pawl is not trapped (thus no gap created) because the crescent shaped release mechanism does not move down smartly enough to trap it in the recess before it slips under the end of the crescent. As it drags under the crescent, the curtain overlap lessens and a gap may be created until it clears the crescent and accelerates to finish the exposure fairly evenly.
The good news is that it is very fixable. Unless the crescent is mis-shaped, it's usual that the crescent and the rod that it is mounted on has some residue of old oil on it. As you press the button (see under the camera) a spring strip is pressed down by the shaft running through the sprocket. Inboard of this shaft you may see another rod resting on the strip. This is the end of the crescent shaft (or a follower shaft). It is pushed down by a remarkably fine spring in the top of the camera. It is easy to defeat this spring.
A CLA under the top will fix this, but I read of some-one here who got it to improve by running a little oil thinner down that shaft.
Personally, I would get the top off it and get to understand how it works.
Dave
If your shutter problem is as your earlier post and example, it is like this one of mine (from a while back, I don't save the scans of these anymore!)
As was neatly worked out by a reply (can't find the thread now, my apologies), this area of under or non-exposure was created on the RHS of the film gate? My example is on the LHS of the scene as I held the camera, so happened on the RHS of the gate.
If I am correct about the terminology, capping is when one curtain catches up with the other and causes a fairly sharp cut-off in the exposure. This is normally seen on the RHS of the image and is "usually" due to impediments in the curtain path or damage to the curtains or drums/tapes.
What my images show (and maybe yours too) is a release problem. This is generally only seen on the fastest speed and can be annoyingly intermittent, until you really want the picture out come out right.
What happens is that the second curtain pawl is not trapped (thus no gap created) because the crescent shaped release mechanism does not move down smartly enough to trap it in the recess before it slips under the end of the crescent. As it drags under the crescent, the curtain overlap lessens and a gap may be created until it clears the crescent and accelerates to finish the exposure fairly evenly.
The good news is that it is very fixable. Unless the crescent is mis-shaped, it's usual that the crescent and the rod that it is mounted on has some residue of old oil on it. As you press the button (see under the camera) a spring strip is pressed down by the shaft running through the sprocket. Inboard of this shaft you may see another rod resting on the strip. This is the end of the crescent shaft (or a follower shaft). It is pushed down by a remarkably fine spring in the top of the camera. It is easy to defeat this spring.
A CLA under the top will fix this, but I read of some-one here who got it to improve by running a little oil thinner down that shaft.
Personally, I would get the top off it and get to understand how it works.
Dave
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wolves3012
Veteran
Fidget,
Good point on this possible problem, I'm not sure which side of the frame paulfish is referring to. I do recall the previous thread and I have a feeling it might have been my reply. I say that since I've experienced almost the same problem on a Zorki 5 - on that camera it resulted in no exposure at 1/250th and was random too. Capping is, as you say, where the second curtain catches up with the first.
Paulfish,
Can you clarify which side of the image is missing (relative to how you would normally hold the camera for a "landscape" shot)?
Good point on this possible problem, I'm not sure which side of the frame paulfish is referring to. I do recall the previous thread and I have a feeling it might have been my reply. I say that since I've experienced almost the same problem on a Zorki 5 - on that camera it resulted in no exposure at 1/250th and was random too. Capping is, as you say, where the second curtain catches up with the first.
Paulfish,
Can you clarify which side of the image is missing (relative to how you would normally hold the camera for a "landscape" shot)?
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I think this is the earlier thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90564
Sounds to me like Paul is already checking the shutter in front of the TV and all that, but is reluctant to make any adjustments since the problem is so infrequent.
Sounds to me like Paul is already checking the shutter in front of the TV and all that, but is reluctant to make any adjustments since the problem is so infrequent.
wolves3012
Veteran
I don't think that's the thread fidget was referring to. Actually, another thought has occurred to me on this - paulfish did say originally, in the thread above, that it was mostly when the camera had sat a while. Holding the camera vertically the way he said, the shutter blinds are running uphill. And yet, the problem is on the left of the shot/right of the shutter. Fidget's idea starts to make more sense as the culprit and it's actually not capping.
paulfish4570
Veteran
dave/fidget: I tried the LCD tv thing and just was not sure of what I was seeing. I DID see a "cap" when snapping before a white shade. Also, I immediately recognized the machinery when you described it a couple of posts above this. With my shaky hands, I am not sure I want to mess with shutter adjustments, and maybe not the top. But, my gut tells me, from looking at your photo and reading the post, the problem is a little dirtiness. Even a little used jewel of a camera like this one collect dirt over 45 years or so, I reckon. I like this camera. I like the way it makes me see.
wolves3012
Veteran
Paulfish,
unless that's a typo on your part, the LCD TV will tell you nothing. You need to use and old-school CRT (tube) type TV or, better still, computer monitor for this.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Paulfish, as long as you can enjoy using it, that's great.
There can be other problems which are seen far more clearly at the fastest speed (on negs to). My other persistent problem with a few more FEDs and Zorkis than I might expect is the gradual change in exposure across the frame.
In the end, I found myself trying to avoid 1/500th when using any FED that I wasn't fully confident with (not many).
I must say that with a nominal top speed of 1/1000, my zorki 4 could be expected to be pretty bad for this, but it's one of my most reliable bodies.
Dave
There can be other problems which are seen far more clearly at the fastest speed (on negs to). My other persistent problem with a few more FEDs and Zorkis than I might expect is the gradual change in exposure across the frame.
In the end, I found myself trying to avoid 1/500th when using any FED that I wasn't fully confident with (not many).
I must say that with a nominal top speed of 1/1000, my zorki 4 could be expected to be pretty bad for this, but it's one of my most reliable bodies.
Dave
Ramon-uk
Member
I gave up with the TV method after all the screens in the house were replaced with LCDs. I now use my Canon DSLR which is much easier. Here's the setup :
This arrangement allows me to focus on the film plane of the RF camera through the lens mount. With the DSLR on manual mode I first make a reference shot of a plain evenly illuminated surface through the open RF camera shutter. Then put the DSLR on B, open the DSLR shutter, fire the RF camera shutter, close the DSLR shutter.
This set up will show up any shutter faults such as capping or bounce and by using the same shutter speed on the DSLR for the reference shot as you use on the RF camera will enable you to compare the histograms from each shot and immediately see any fast or slow shutter speeds.
Much easier than wasting film.
This arrangement allows me to focus on the film plane of the RF camera through the lens mount. With the DSLR on manual mode I first make a reference shot of a plain evenly illuminated surface through the open RF camera shutter. Then put the DSLR on B, open the DSLR shutter, fire the RF camera shutter, close the DSLR shutter.
This set up will show up any shutter faults such as capping or bounce and by using the same shutter speed on the DSLR for the reference shot as you use on the RF camera will enable you to compare the histograms from each shot and immediately see any fast or slow shutter speeds.
Much easier than wasting film.
wolves3012
Veteran
Now that is a damn clever idea! Thanks for sharing - all I'm short of is the DSLR. I guess my Minolta Z1 would also do the trick since it has a "B" setting on manual and will focus that close (might need the +2 lens I have though).
Shame it won't work for bottom-load cameras without removing the shell...
Shame it won't work for bottom-load cameras without removing the shell...
paulfish4570
Veteran
No CTs in my humble cabin ...