Roger Hicks
Veteran
Nothing to do with the photos, but a small piece of empirically derived advice on writing. Whenever possible, try to avoid beginning a sentence with "I". People really don't care about you, you, you. They care about getting advice that is useful to them. This is especially important when choosing a thread title. In other words, "Taking pics on the street" would probably attract more people than "I just wrote a piece of taking pics on the street" -- the more so as it should be "about", not "of". Grammar police? Well, yes, maybe; but if you want people to read your stuff, it's not a bad idea to be grammatical.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
furbs
Well-known
And in the vein of Roger's advice, not in relation to your photography but your writing - we don't need to hear how many homes or galleries contain your work when reading your advice concerning street photography. You run the risk of sounding like a blowhard, a la Ken Rockwell. Most people will happily look at your photos then read your advice if they like your style. Don't worry about selling your story, your photos should be able to hook readers on their own (which they do, imo).
koven
Well-known
Thank You!!
I had to mention that, that's the only reason I think I'm qualified to give advice or share my thoughts. I'm glad you think my photos can hook readers on their own but you need more. Maybe by this time next year I wont have to write anything about what I've done in the past or have to prove myself. I feel like because I added that little part, I haven't been bashed as much as I would have been and it makes me look legit. Ive done some real things in art but I'm not even close to where I want to be. I think writing this post will help me a ways. I definitely gained some new followers and views in the past 24 hours.
koven
Well-known
Thank you
I'm still working on my writing and ability to express myself. I was an engineering major so I never wrote any essays in college really. This was basically an exercise on getting ideas out of my head and on to paper. Its a learning process but im starting to get more polished. I also wrote this at 3am haha.
I originally wrote this as a blog post to my followers on tumblr but I posted it here to get more feedback. Thanks!
I have some cool and controversial ideas about photography based on observations ive made in the past years. Ill defiantly share when I get better at writing.
troym
Established
This doesn't relate to your photographs or your essay, but I do have a word of advice about RFF. Please take a look at the posting history of your chief critic from earlier in this thread. Responding to him is probably not a sound use of your time.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
...which is why we have an ignore list - he was relegated to mine weeks ago.
@koven,
If I may, a bit of unsolicited advice: Don't take anything that is said here or on any other internet forum too seriously. Don't let it make you depressed, angry or vengeful. In the final analysis, what's said on an internet forum doesn't make a rat's ass worth of difference. One exposed negative, one captured image one developed roll of film or one printed image is worth a thousand times more than what is said on any internet forum.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Thanks bro and just keep working. There are always going to be people that say this or that. Surround yourself with those that inspire you and most important follow your gut and keep up the good work.
Thanks for the link.
msbarnes
Well-known
Sorry, I know this is OT but is there an "ignore list" feature? I don't plan on ignoring anybody or anything but I was just wondering....lol.
colyn
ישו משיח
Highway 61
Revisited
Well it's the only "offensive" comment you ever get through your whole life as a photographer and writer asking for some critique, you're an happy camper, young grasshopper !
BLKRCAT
75% Film
yeah! I see lots of people walking around with DSLRs or hanging out on streetcorners. I know what they're really there for
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
You're a better photographer than a writer.
I have to be honest, although it's a short article I wanted to stop about half way through because you not only weren't saying much interesting, you were barely saying anything at all. And what you were saying was jumbled up, none of the paragraphs really leads into next one.
"I hate calling it “street photography”... "
"I believe the ingredients for taking pictures on the street are ..."
"I grew up in the city and I hated it as a kid. " etc.
The kid paragraph is sort of the killer because it derails the topic and you go off on a tangent - without first telling us why you're starting this tangent. You have three or four sentences in a row that say nothing about photography, which sort stops the article in its tracks. Enough nit picking though.
I also don't really know about this every picture must have a "point" in it. I guess because I generally consider a photograph to be only part of a larger work, a single image doesn't have to make the point. But perhaps you can expand that thought a bit more.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
This summer, then I was in Toronto, I walked with my Bessa R, took another picture and was noticed by one fella. He approached me and we were talking about RFs. Couple of months later he send me message, notifying me about getting of his own Bessa RF.
Major Tom
Established
Ha, that's pretty awesome. I hope I can make some friends that way too, provided they aren't following me around in cars
oneANT
Established
I enjoyed the photos James ...your writing too. My only difficulty was the variation in sizes which only made the cropping more evident. Don't be put off writing either, its like a RAW file where you can go back many times and tweak. A first draft reads nothing like the edits and after a while (I'm not there yet either) the number of edits reduce because of the advances you learn in writing the 1st.
I know most of the homeless in the streets that I visit and one of my first photos is a homeless fella. http://oneant.com.au/content/grandstanding/leslie.jpg He's quit and looks amazing now and we catch up sometimes. I had a guy like your friend here, I was talking to Les and had my camera over my shoulder and this old fart abused me for talking to him. I chased him down and the whole street watched me rip his head off. They are always the same, they are the ones that turn their heads away. Your photographs are respectful, that should be obvious to any photographer. Not photographing them now is more than just that, you should look at how not photographing the cliche and the homeless actually adds to your technique, that you are not distracted by these things. Look at everything you do as adding to a technique and try to use them while photographing.
On the topic of street photography as a category, its important and you need to dig into it deeper. Its not reportage or life photography ...these already exist that they can include street but are definitely not street photography. I like that street is poorly named. It was a time when people came out of their sitting rooms and the tradition and not the name is what holds it together.
They say that street cannot be defined ....know thats not true and keep defining your own pictures till we can all see you in them.
Terrific work, I really enjoyed my morning coffee and your photos.
I know most of the homeless in the streets that I visit and one of my first photos is a homeless fella. http://oneant.com.au/content/grandstanding/leslie.jpg He's quit and looks amazing now and we catch up sometimes. I had a guy like your friend here, I was talking to Les and had my camera over my shoulder and this old fart abused me for talking to him. I chased him down and the whole street watched me rip his head off. They are always the same, they are the ones that turn their heads away. Your photographs are respectful, that should be obvious to any photographer. Not photographing them now is more than just that, you should look at how not photographing the cliche and the homeless actually adds to your technique, that you are not distracted by these things. Look at everything you do as adding to a technique and try to use them while photographing.
On the topic of street photography as a category, its important and you need to dig into it deeper. Its not reportage or life photography ...these already exist that they can include street but are definitely not street photography. I like that street is poorly named. It was a time when people came out of their sitting rooms and the tradition and not the name is what holds it together.
They say that street cannot be defined ....know thats not true and keep defining your own pictures till we can all see you in them.
Terrific work, I really enjoyed my morning coffee and your photos.
Ranchu
Veteran
You're just rationalizing it. Homeless people are constantly exposed, to judgment, to pigs, to danger, to the cold and the heat, to illness and loneliness, to filth. They have little privacy, less if people take their picture. Some people refrain from taking pictures of them because they see it as a cheap shot, exploiting the person's powerlessness for the benefit of those who can afford to indulge themselves ogling it.
Mainly it's a cheap ploy for pathos, regardless of how you try to dress it up, some think.
I think the escalator picture is very good.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I believe it's all in the approach and how you treat them. I have photographed a lot of people on the street and I'm sure many didn't have homes but I always photograph them for a position of the same respect I would give to any of my corporate or celebrity clients. I will not photograph them from a block away, digging trough garbage, with a very long lens like I'm at the zoo shooting zoo animals.
Thats me. I always shoot up close and personal. If it's more of a portrait type image I always ask. If its more of a moment then if they ask for me to delete it I will. Respect is the key. Many are veterans that have paid a very high price.
oneANT
Established
Not quite sure how every photograph of a homeless person can be qualified by one opinion let alone one photograph. Take the case of the Australian homeless person, simplified I admit but better then the present experience of an unemployed youth in Brazil or Greece. We have a public health system that is overstressed but still cares, a value for life that includes everyone. If you are homeless let alone 90 and penniless, a hip replacement is possible, even heart surgery. The waiting lists grow longer but threat to life takes precedent. The homeless in Australia receive a pension that includes rental assistance and they are case managed and even consulted in the street by a number of agencies. There is food and life and inclusion. Where there are issues of mental health there are further complications but these are present even in the suited and well heeled street citizen.
The point is ...no one is excluded.
If you dont care to look at a homeless person then continue looking away, some of us dont so dont dare think that there is some kind of moral high ground by ignoring them. Coffee, lunch, coins ...many of us contribute to their day.
Les was seriously ill, he was on the other side of the street, people were laughing as they walked past, a couple holding hands. I only looked to see what the laughter was. He was doubled over in pain and I had to do everything when those that look away never do anything. I paid him to stay off the streets for 3 weeks and the pain and the chance to rest quietly and be fed and comfortable gave him some more time to think about quitting the street.
What irks me though is that this is a photography forum ...pity you have to share the space with those that cant even look at a photograph let alone a homeless person. We admonish those that take freedom with them, but to object without any justification is more a matter of hypocrisy than photography. Just keep looking away, it seems to work for some.Then to tell other photographers how to think, how to be just like them ...lol
The point is ...no one is excluded.
If you dont care to look at a homeless person then continue looking away, some of us dont so dont dare think that there is some kind of moral high ground by ignoring them. Coffee, lunch, coins ...many of us contribute to their day.
Les was seriously ill, he was on the other side of the street, people were laughing as they walked past, a couple holding hands. I only looked to see what the laughter was. He was doubled over in pain and I had to do everything when those that look away never do anything. I paid him to stay off the streets for 3 weeks and the pain and the chance to rest quietly and be fed and comfortable gave him some more time to think about quitting the street.
What irks me though is that this is a photography forum ...pity you have to share the space with those that cant even look at a photograph let alone a homeless person. We admonish those that take freedom with them, but to object without any justification is more a matter of hypocrisy than photography. Just keep looking away, it seems to work for some.Then to tell other photographers how to think, how to be just like them ...lol
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
About the homeless:
I spent some time with a group of homeless aboriginal people a while ago in Brisbane's West End. Most were alcoholics or drug users and I spent quite a lot of time with them discovering they were just people marginalised by various circumstances ... some were nice and some weren't which is pretty much the way humanity is in any area IMO.
I took a few photos and discussed my photography with them and and answered their questions about me and tried to be very open and honest with them which I know they appereciated. I got abused a couple of times and had a bottle thrown at me but didn't take it personally because they would often treat each other the same way when really intoxicated. It remains one of the most rewarding experiences of my life but I also found it emotionally draining and often couldn't take photos because of this, though they had no objection once they trusted me and understood my motives.
I spent some time with a group of homeless aboriginal people a while ago in Brisbane's West End. Most were alcoholics or drug users and I spent quite a lot of time with them discovering they were just people marginalised by various circumstances ... some were nice and some weren't which is pretty much the way humanity is in any area IMO.
I took a few photos and discussed my photography with them and and answered their questions about me and tried to be very open and honest with them which I know they appereciated. I got abused a couple of times and had a bottle thrown at me but didn't take it personally because they would often treat each other the same way when really intoxicated. It remains one of the most rewarding experiences of my life but I also found it emotionally draining and often couldn't take photos because of this, though they had no objection once they trusted me and understood my motives.
oneANT
Established
He is stunning Keith, we've got a homeless lad that lives with us, we had two but the other is working now and doing really well. The lad we still have has been drinking since 12 and has the lungs of a sailor. Amazing boy can be anything he wants and thats the tricky part when all he has some days is a death wish. A handsome boy, the girls adore him and so do we. Don't care if he stays with us forever and he knows it.
These homeless people have names, its the very least any objector could have to a street photographer, to at least know the name of one single homeless person that they think they protect ...just one. But they don't and if we tell them that we give the homeless money they object again and tell us that we are buying their booze. The world is such an ugly place some days. They dont understand that you cant win by doing nothing and looking away.
These homeless people have names, its the very least any objector could have to a street photographer, to at least know the name of one single homeless person that they think they protect ...just one. But they don't and if we tell them that we give the homeless money they object again and tell us that we are buying their booze. The world is such an ugly place some days. They dont understand that you cant win by doing nothing and looking away.