I need help: 35s

[zoar]

Hi,

I've been considering the following lenses. They vary widely in price, but I'm interested in the best performance. I'm a street shooter and right now I'm shooting strictly in black and white:

1. 35 f2 pre-ASPH Summicron (4th version)
2. Zeiss Biogon 35 f2
3. Voigtlander 35f2,5 Color Skopar
4. V'lander 35f2,5 Pancake II

For some reason the pre-ASPH Summicron just flies off the shelves, even though it may actually be behind the newer lenses in performance. Has a small size and... "bokeh!". The V'lander lenses are supposed to be pretty close (or equal to) the pre-ASPH 'cron, but there is almost a $1000 difference between them (!), so I'm wondering if I should be considering the pre-ASPH at all. Perhaps the Zeiss, sandwiched in between the 'cron and the V'lander is the best in price / performance?

Thanks.

 

[swoop]

I'm in the same position.

I'm at a toss between the Biogon 35 and the summicron 35.

The summicron isn't as sharp (4th gen). But it has amazing character. The samples I've seen of the zeiss are much sharper by comparison and offer a life like immersion. And have great colour rendition.

But the summicron suits my style more. A dreamlike/serene depiction of events.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[venchka]

Every version of the 35mm Summicron has it's followers and detractors. Search this forum for an endless amount of reading on the 35mm Summicron. Search the Gallery for an amazing number of photos from all 4 35mm Summicrons. #2 & #3 are optically identical. From my limited price observations, it is entirely possible to pounce on the current ASPH version for no more, maybe less, than the inflated 4th (optically 3rd) version. The 3rd version is often found for a lot less than the 4th. By by many accounts #3 is a very good performer.

As for your two C/V choices, why not look at the 35/1.7 Ultron or 35/1.2 Nokton. For a street shooter I would think that Speed Rules!

I really haven't studied the ZM 35/2.0. I think I shall. However, new it's more than the #3 Summicron and very close to a really good price on the current ASPH Summicron.

Good luck!

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[lscaglio]

I use a Summaron 35/2,8 and a Hexanon 35/2, nice lenses in your price range. In my opinion the quality of these two lenses is not inferior to the other you mentioned.

My 2 cents
Luca

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[venchka]

I'm glad the 35/2 M-Hexanon was mentioned. If it is as good as the 28 M-Hexanon it's a keeper! Another lens to put into the Search Thingie.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[kevin m]

What body are you shooting with? If it's an M6 with its small framelines, then a 40mm Summicron or Rokkor makes an excellent low-cost substitute for the grossly-overpriced 4th version Summicron. In fact, I'd recommend the 40mm SC Nokton over the 4th Summicron, too.

Nothing 'wrong' with the 4th Summicron, mind you, it's just that it's overpriced relative to its performance.

 

[Avotius]

Ive seen 4th crons go for more then asph crons, in my opinion thats nuts, be carefull if you get one of those. Each of these lenses are very different. The two voightlanders are good lenses, the pancake2 is the one I would have from that lot because the other one has that damn focus nub thing that sucks, but the pancake is small, so small its easy to bump the apature ring when focusing. These two lenses are also very afordable bang for buck. The 35 biogon is huge, way too big in my opinion, that alone would rule it out for me. The 4th cron is a proven lens but overpriced as pointed out. Frankly I would go one step further and get the asph cron but if that doesnt apeal to you my choice is still gona be the 4th cron if you have money and the pancake2 (dont forget the shade!) if you dont..

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[Avotius]

Dear Magus: that very well could be, I have only handled the pre asph lux once and never got to shoot any photos from it. I liked the size of the lens (a chrome one, shocking how heavy that sucker is) although the aperture ring was really loose (probably just that sample). Since I have no experience with that lens I didnt mention it but good advice for potential 35mm buyers.

 

[kevin m]

The price on both the summilux and summicron out of reason for the degree of performance.

Amen to that. When I hear the IV Summicron referred to as the "bokeh king" then I know we've left science behind and are dealing with a matter of blind faith. The lens is mediocre wide open. It's really nice by f4.0, but so what? There's a whole handful of more modern, much cheaper 35's that can make that claim. 😕

The lens routinely sells for $900 in nice shape and performance-wise, that's about 3 times what it's worth. And we haven't even touched on its tendency to get sloppy loose in the barrel under normal use, either. I was well-acquainted with my lens spanner in the year I owned my copy. 😀

 

[x-ray]

Amen to that. When I hear the IV Summicron referred to as the "bokeh king" then I know we've left science behind and are dealing with a matter of blind faith. The lens is mediocre wide open. It's really nice by f4.0, but so what? There's a whole handful of more modern, much cheaper 35's that can make that claim. 😕

The lens routinely sells for $900 in nice shape and performance-wise, that's about 3 times what it's worth. And we haven't even touched on its tendency to get sloppy loose in the barrel under normal use, either. I was well-acquainted with my lens spanner in the year I owned my copy. 😀

You're on the mark with your evaluation. The v4 is good but not as good as many think. Bokeh is no bid deal for me. For me it's what's in focus not what's out. There seems to be an entire culture around bokeh.

The mount on my v4 is sloppy as you mention. My 50 tabbed summicron would bind at 3ft and the new 90 AA was binding untill I had it serviced.

My suggestion, buy a CV of your choice and then pocket $600 - $950 or go buy another lens or two. Leica makes fine lenses but so do a number of other makers. If leica was as good as some think everyone would shoot them and every client would demand the phographer use them. No client or magazine has ever asked what camera or lens (film camera) I use much less tell me I had to shoot with a Leica with a v4 summicron, summilux or otherwise.

I want to mention to look at the upcoming 2007 B&W Special Edition Magazine. My remarks are for those that deny the flare in the v1 summilux. I received the gold (1st place) award for documentary photography (Don Dudenbostel) with a shot that I made with my v1 90 Elmarit. The reason my shots with my 35 v1 summilux didn't get submitted was that it was ruined by secondary images. See the atteched image. I had many images ruined by either flare or secondary reflections in the lens.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[zoar]

Thanks, the commentary is extremely helpful. I guess I had some inhibitions about the Biogon due to its size -- but it's performance seems beyond question.

I have an M6 and my current lens is a 50f2 Dual Range Summicron. I've searched for a 35f2,8 Summaron without the eyes, but no luck so far (at least not in the affordable range). I think the DR would be the same size as the Biogon, but I was looking for something a little less bulky (secondary to performance of course). I've tickled the idea of using a 28, but I think a 35 is as wide as I want to go right now.

Outside the forum I've heard mixed things about the ASPH 35 'cron. For B&W some think it's a little too contrasty (and the 'bokeh', for what it's worth, is a little too distracting). It is odd that the ASPH is literally two hundred dollars more than the 4th 'cron on the used market. Perhaps Leica underestimated the importance of the compact size of the old 'crons.

I'll consider the Ultron...The CV prices really embarass the competition.

 

[Rico]

I always enjoy the x-ray report on 35's past and present. 🙂

For myself, the appeal of sharpness and contrast has worn off. Of far greater interest to me are matters of bokeh, flare, and ergonomics. I think OOF rendition is vital if you employ selective focus on a regular basis. Flare is highly desirable, but it must look pretty. Ergonomics includes the size of the lens, markings, aperture detents, ease of handling, etc. Taken together, these considerations can make lens selection a personal and trying process.

I have many CZ lens for Contax RTS, but the ZM lenses are too big, have 1/3 stops, and miserable DOF scales (short focus throw). That's just my opinion, of course. In contrast to the 35 Biogon, my current fav Summaron 35/2.8 has single coating, full stop detents, great DOF scale, tiny size, and a pretty chrome finish. Images are decent, too.

Of all C/V lenses, the 35 Nokton is most attractive to me. The size is frightening, but the build quality is reportedly high, I love the bokeh, and the DOF scale is OK. Maybe for Christmas...

 

[x-ray]

We each have our personal favorites and I certainly respect that. Choice is very good and what I like doesn't translate to anothers like. What works for the execution of my vision won't work for another. This is what makes each photog's personal style. The things you fiond objectionable about the Biogon are the things I love.

If you haven't tried the Nokton you should. Personally I love it and can live with the size / performance ratio.

 

[Davor]

I bought my Summicron IV for about $500, here in Sweden. If I'm not mistaken, there's one comming up at the www.lpfoto.se auction soon, and I recon that it's going to go for rougly the same price.