I Protest Strongly!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cross posted from the other thread:

I think that this is getting blown out of proportion by some people. All this is asking is whether or not it is a good idea to have people log in to the forum before they can view the classifieds. This is not trying to come up with some elitist plan to disallow new members to do anything. Everyone needs to take a step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine the original intent of the post.

Having to be a member before you view classifieds isn't going to be a huge deal, really. You have to be a member before being able to PM the people to ask about the items anyway and there are a *lot* of cases where an email option isn't offered. It isn't going to be that much different. It will bring more new people in (hopefully) and allow all of us (buying and selling alike) just a bit more fraud security. It may or may not also help a bit with those people who register just to buy something and then never talk again. They won't be able to base their membership decision on the classified section anymore, but on the actual posts of the people here. I find this a good thing; the more people we get here with an honest interest in rangefinder photography the better the site will become.

As an aside for this thread only, I can see where Joe is coming from. I think that the real time for concern will come when we start putting restrictions on posting for new members...but I don't see that ever happening. This is a very close, tight-knit community. We help each other out considerably and rely on the opinions of those here. We agree and disagree like any good family and this is what makes this place special. I'd just like to say that this is the place I've been looking for the entire 7 years I've been on the internet. This is home to me. I've been treated well here, newbie or not, and I don't see that changing with this new rule. I think what really matters is that we keep the homey, close feel of this community and the willingness to help others. As long as a few little changes here and there don't change *that* about us, this forum will never become anything other than it was meant to be.

And that's my five cents worth.
 
back alley said:
it's the principle, not the action.

If I were getting paid on clickthroughs, I'd want to track who was doing it. Just a comment thrown out there.

i don't like the messege it sends.

GoAT? I like that message.

we are fine as is and unless there is a problem i am unaware of...

It may not be your pocketbook, but I'd wager it is someone's.

change for the sake of change is wasted energy.

Not all reasons are seen. Follow the money.

don't worry frank, i'm not going anywhere, just blowing off some of the considerable steam i have going.

Good one, bud. Hang in there. Brewskies always help me. Besides you telling me to cool off, that is.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
back alley said:
no one has answered my initial question...what is the problem that this is the solution for?

The way I see it (and I generally avoid these meta-discussions, but ...) there's been a vocal dislike of those who use this system just as a sales tool, meaning those who come aboard just to sell something, or many things, and don't participate otherwise.

You know, the ones whose post count is 1 and that's a for sale item.
 
small percentage of the f/s posts are from newbies and we have the choice to buy or not.

i do not think this is being overblown, by me anyway, i think this is the beginning of a fundamental shift in policy and i do not like it.
what's next?

joe
 
I had time to think this over for the whole day and I did vote for "open to the world". I don't like it either. Too many lurkers here. Many sign up in the end to be able to trade with other members. If there's a probabtion period or such, I reckon they'll go somewhere else. And, like Joe said, it's not gonna make a damn difference. Those that are crooked will still be crooked, but those good of faith might find it offensive. No need to raise the bar for someone to trade here. If you don't want to trade with another, you just don't have to.
 
I remember one RFF seller having a "Bogus Buyer" pay with a bad money order and then send his friends over to collect the camera in person.

And another case of the guy who joined to buy cameras and resell them.

Would this block have stopped them? I don't know. But chances are, you will be a member for longer than one day before pulling those stunts.
 
dmr said:
The way I see it (and I generally avoid these meta-discussions, but ...) there's been a vocal dislike of those who use this system just as a sales tool, meaning those who come aboard just to sell something, or many things, and don't participate otherwise.

You know, the ones whose post count is 1 and that's a for sale item.

Ask yourself how clickthroughs get counted and paid.

I used to work for the Omaha Weird Harold newspaper. You have to charge for subscribing to the newspaper. Some piddling amount, hardly even the amount it costs to print and distribute. But if you don't, your ABC audits will show a low paid circulation. Low paid circulation results in low advertising rates.

I don't know how the web model for advertising works, but I'll bet there is some of that in it. Registered users count for more than unregistered users. Something like that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I don't think this is about money. I think it's more about keeping things safe for us as members.

But that's just me. I think it should have been discussed with Joe before being put to us.
 
back alley said:
it's the principle, not the action.

i don't like the messege it sends.

we are fine as is and unless there is a problem i am unaware of...

change for the sake of change is wasted energy.

don't worry frank, i'm not going anywhere, just blowing off some of the considerable steam i have going.


Isn't this really just "life on the 'net" This place has changed considerably in the year that I've been a member. The site is about growth and revenue, perhaps for its own sake, but nonetheless. It's just like television. You may love watching 'Lost' or 'American Idol', but when it comes down to it, it's all about selling cars, cell phone service, etc. In that light, membership needs to go up, for the sake of the advertisers, numbers is numbers. This is our 'Lost,' our 'American Idol.'


🙂
 
I look at this in a different way:

We can no longer post images inline in posts. Political photos, especially anti-Bush things, were censored. This isn't the first time that something has happened that may or may not be good for the forum. Things are changing as our membership grows. This is the way life goes.

Censorship isn't good. I dislike it. I can see, in some cases, where there would be a need, but I still don't have to like it. Same with the fact that we can't post images in posts anymore except as attachments. It's annoying to always have to open an attachment to see a photo, but I can see why it could be necessary. It is the same with this. I voted yes, but only because I could see what benefits would come from it. It wasn't because I really liked the idea.

Regardless of whether I like it or not, this is how things are. I can either just deal with it whether I ilke it or not or just leave. I prefer to stay because I love this place, the people in it, and the community feeling here. Without this place, I probably would have given up photography a year ago because I couldn't really afford the hobby anymore. Here I learned to develop my own film, the benefits of using a rangefinder, and I learned one other thing that I had given up on long ago: generous, caring people really do still exist.

We're still going to be the same. This isn't going to change anything. Joe, you're the one who got me interested in CANONS for the love of God. Jim (jlw) fed that interest by letting me borrow the Canon P. Now I have one. I owe this place a lot for feeding my interest in photography again. Regardless of *any* changes made, this is still a great place with great people and an even greater sense of community. You can't get that anywhere else. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
 
Stephanie Brim said:
I look at this in a different way:

We can no longer post images inline in posts. Political photos, especially anti-Bush things, were censored. This isn't the first time that something has happened that may or may not be good for the forum. Things are changing as our membership grows. This is the way life goes.

Censorship isn't good. I dislike it. I can see, in some cases, where there would be a need, but I still don't have to like it. Same with the fact that we can't post images in posts anymore except as attachments. It's annoying to always have to open an attachment to see a photo, but I can see why it could be necessary. It is the same with this. I voted yes, but only because I could see what benefits would come from it. It wasn't because I really liked the idea.

Regardless of whether I like it or not, this is how things are. I can either just deal with it whether I ilke it or not or just leave. I prefer to stay because I love this place, the people in it, and the community feeling here. Without this place, I probably would have given up photography a year ago because I couldn't really afford the hobby anymore. Here I learned to develop my own film, the benefits of using a rangefinder, and I learned one other thing that I had given up on long ago: generous, caring people really do still exist.

We're still going to be the same. This isn't going to change anything. Joe, you're the one who got me interested in CANONS for the love of God. Jim (jlw) fed that interest by letting me borrow the Canon P. Now I have one. I owe this place a lot for feeding my interest in photography again. Regardless of *any* changes made, this is still a great place with great people and an even greater sense of community. You can't get that anywhere else. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Well said, Stephanie.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Several times during the day I jump over to RFF to see what's selling. I did't usually sign in as it took too much time. If I saw something I wanted I signed in and made the appropriate contact. No problems.

Now I must sign in to look at the classifieds. I find that a major inconvenience. Now I'm not as active as many members here...but I have financially supported this forum with direct cash (including book and hat) and this inconvenience may make me reconsider that in the future.

I don't see how signing in to view the classified makes us any safer from scammers, etc. If someone wants to take your money without sending you the goods they'll find a way. Minimum posts, etc. are just minor obstacles to the ethically challenged.

There are some good points made by both sides but all-in-all I see no benefit from this action.
 
No way. I didn't even use the classifieds section when I first got here. I got my first rangefinder (the Canonet 28) off of Ebay. I started here because I saw that there were good people here that would help me. The classifieds is just a plus; I can deal with people I know are not going to stiff me.
 
Perhaps I do not understand real nature of the problem. I certainly do not understand the "solution."

Is the only issue 'For Sale' posts by those with extremely low post counts?

Restricting viewing of the Classified Forum to those not registered accomplishes exactly what?

A seller must register in order to post, so the new rule won't have an affect on the individual who registers for the sole purpose of selling without intent to participate. It will only serve to restrict those who view the classifieds.

How is this Classified Forum any different from pnet or eBay? No one with a modicum of sense would blindly make a purchase with newly registered or zero or low feedback seller. Any
seller also has the option of not transacting with a potential buyer with whom they feel uncomfortable.

I don't like the government, or anyone else for that matter, deciding they know best how to protect me from myself. I also don't think anyone here is "overreacting" to this latest decision.
The beginning of restrictions historically commences with a seemingly innocuous rule that appears inarguably harmless.

Forcing registration to view For Sale posts does absolutely nothing to attract the type of member this forum professes to desire.

I simply don't get it.
 
in order to prevent abuse of RFF, I've decided to elect myself the Classifieds Moderator.. starting now there will be a 25 cent charge to access the classifieds forum... but only 10 cents to post or reply to a thread there.. please have your credit card number handy.. operators are standing by
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom