I Protest Strongly!!

[dmr]

Ask yourself how clickthroughs get counted and paid.

I don't know, but my guess it's on the number of actual clicks on the ad, and has nothing to do with membership.

I used to work for the Omaha Weird Harold newspaper. You have to charge for subscribing to the newspaper.

Oh yes, the paper that everybody loves to hate. 🙂 I see you got the name right.

OBTW, a few years ago a satirical site popped up with, you guessed it, www.weirdharold.com

I don't know if it's still up, but one of the guys on one of the local boards did some checking and found out that the people behind it were -- you guessed it, the World Herald people using one of their nonobvious business names. 🙂

 

[FrankS]

Hey, I'll do that for free, Brett. I'd get first crack at all gear listed for sale. NO wait, I'm fine with the stuff I have.

Bill said follow the money. Doesn't more registered members translate into higher advertising revenue for Jorge? Simple.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

And yeah, as the site grows, so do expenses. I suppose that, looking at it that way, it could be a bit about money. But here's the thing: would you rather this small change or Jorge to have to start charging people to do things?

This *is* getting to be a rather large site and, though a lot of people donate, it probably isn't always quite enough. Bandwidth is expensive and so is server space. APUG will only let you post classifieds if you are a paying member of the site. At least here, now, it's just registering.

Again, my two cents.

[size=-1]Why do I keep getting myself into these things? Shut up, Stephanie. 😛[/size]

 

[flashover]

My Brain hurts after folowing this stuff. How was the decision made based on the votes, based on the posts? I now regret having voted as I think now it was a mistake. It kind of puzzels me that the fourm mod was not given the heads up this was coming.

 

[sf]

I'll second what RayPA said. I see the possible negative consequences of the decision, but when it comes down to it, the members (and those who would become members) are what define RFF.

Restricting who views it could be positive, because it will help keep the value inside RFF rather than having used gear trolls come through and suck everything up . . . but that has not been a problem, anyway. But it could. . .

The problem with it, is that people who are intending to just take that value out of here without adding anything, will register anyway. So there might not be any real beneficial effect.

Overall, though, I think it will be more of a good thing than bad, because members will get a chance at finding deals before people who are just trolling the internet looking to buy up gear.

 

[BrianShaw]

Oy veh (deep sigh).

 

[Nick R.]

Logically, I suppose that limiting more and more parts of the site to registered members will mean that in the future it will actually be worth paying to register, like Pnet.

Something I agree with, btw.

 

[c.poulton]

Logically, I suppose that limiting more and more parts of the site to registered members will mean that in the future it will actually be worth paying to register, like Pnet.

Something I agree with, btw.

Sorry Nick, I cannot agree with you here.

I found this site purely by accident and if I had to pay to join - then I would not have done so - what ever the amount.

To support the site I do click on the ad's - bought my new Bessa from Robert White in fact!

 

[bmattock]

Several times during the day I jump over to RFF to see what's selling. I did't usually sign in as it took too much time. If I saw something I wanted I signed in and made the appropriate contact. No problems.

I don't sign in each time I open a browser and aim it at RFF, whether at work or at home. In fact, unless I click 'logout', I seem to stay logged in all the time.

Now I must sign in to look at the classifieds. I find that a major inconvenience.

A 'major inconvenience'? Do you have trouble with doors too? I mean all that opening and closing. Zippers must be a bother as well.

Now I'm not as active as many members here...but I have financially supported this forum with direct cash (including book and hat) and this inconvenience may make me reconsider that in the future.

I just love those implied threats. OK, Mister Abramoff.

I don't see how signing in to view the classified makes us any safer from scammers, etc. If someone wants to take your money without sending you the goods they'll find a way. Minimum posts, etc. are just minor obstacles to the ethically challenged.

Agreed. But waiting periods (one year) make lazy scammers seek greener pastures. And those whose primary reason for being here is to buy and sell, but again, I see that as all upside.

There are some good points made by both sides but all-in-all I see no benefit from this action.

I think you hit it. YOU see no benefit.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[back alley]

ok, maybe time to cool down, for everyone...

i need to make something clear. i was not complaining about not being consulted about this decision.
this is not my site.
it is jorge's site to do with as he sees fit.
i made the comment to emphasize that this is not my decision and in no way am i attached to it. it goes against a personal philosophy.
i can live with this decision not liking it.

i do not want to split our group into factions over this.
that was not my intent.

being a hot blooded/headed italian from brooklyn i just reacted as such, maybe too quickly.

doesn't change my belief but maybe how i might have acted otherwise.

anyway, enjoy the day folks.

joe

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Well,
I can now decide if I'm going to mercilessly swoop in on all those RFF bargains that I can't resist, or let someone else have a chance.

My $25 J-3 just arrived. Last week it was the $50 Canon 50/1.8. Next it will be the $11 Canon 50/1.2 parts lens. Did I mention the $85 Nikkor 5cm/1.4? But that was Ebay...Seller listed it for a Contax. At worst, it was shimmed for the Contax. At best, it works just fine on the Nikon and no one else would take the risk.

ANYWAY! I'll have to log in and contribute something, THEN see all those bargains with my PAYPAL account charged and ready...

 

[Gipsy]

TOO BAD! If anyone wants the handle gipsy it is yours.

 

[BrianShaw]

being a hot blooded/headed italian from brooklyn ...

Being a new-comer to this forum I wasn't *exactly* sure what was going on. Now I get it!

😎

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You also have to log in to use the Search Function.

I just can't see the problem here.

Here is a bad experience of someone using the RFF classified section, and is the reason why I voted "yes". Maybe having it invisible to surfers could help, maybe not. Will it keep it out of google hits?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11224&highlight=showed+door

 

[MP Guy]

First of all, the intent is not for revenue. RFF makes just enough from its sponsors to cover the cost. In actuality, this site make very little if any money especially when you consider that I am the founder, fronted all the cash up fron a few years ago for servers, software, connection to he world etc .. With the ongoing cost of have a hosted facility and the initial startup cost I am far from recovering my funds. As far as revenue from the hats go, If I make 4 to 5 on a hat that is wonderful. But the cost of the hats, packaging material and postage add up. So, having said that, this site is not about revenue. Thats not to say that one day If I get many sponsors than RFF will turn a profit. This site is for the sole purpose of providing what it does now at NO COST WHATSOEVER to a member! The only thing that keeps me going and gets me excited is members, raffic and knowing that RFF is know around the planet as a great photo site. Having said all this, I started to require membership to view the clasifieds in order to increase the member count. My goal is to have the best site on the net for analog or digital RF photography. RFF does not pay for advertising, RFF does not get any special treatment from competeing sites, RFF has been a standalone site which has made it on its own. The more members there are, the better the word of mouth wil be.

Straight form the horses mouth!

 

[ch1]

i see the majority rules!

we now have to be a member and logged in to access the classifieds.

this is the beginning of being just like everyone else on the net!!

i may be all doom & gloom here but i think this is very bad news, very very bad news.

i could not be more upset and pissed off!!

i am in the heat of anger here and i don't want emotion to rule...but...i question if this is the same place it was yesterday and if it's the place for me.

this is completely jorge's decision made without any input from me.
this is his site and he has that right but i still think it's a very bad move!!

joe

Joe,

I agree with you.

And I still do not see the wisdom in this decision - why restrict reader access to any portion of the site? Granted you have to be a member to post - that's a valid control mechanism. But to read the "classifieds"? Bizarre.

Websites that seek "exclusivity" may ultimately find that no one is interested in being there anymore.

Sorry Jorge did not seek your counsel before doing this.

Regards,
George

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Thank you. That clears things up.

As a response to Jorge, of course.

 

[bmattock]

Having said all this, I started to require membership to view the clasifieds in order to increase the member count.

That doesn't make any sense. You can type in names from a phone book if all you want is more members. More members why? What is more besides more? I am failing to see how more means better, unless it has something to do with advertising revenue - and if so, more power to ya, bro.

This site is something special - as you well know. The membership increases at a steady rate - and seems to be self-selecting for the intelligent, the insightful, the generally well-behaved (except for me, of course). Adding to the membership by making the buy/sell crew register and login seems not to give any value-add that I can see. They didn't post messages before, they won't now. And as you see, many crybabies have a huge problem with logging in to buy and sell - it should be free AND they should be anonymous, as they see it.

I don't see RFF as a special place because it has rippin' dealz on stuffage. I see it as a special place because of jerky boys like copake_ham telling me that I'm responding to my own posts about eleventy times per day whenever I've pinned his ears back with sheer logic and raw intellect (grin).

I say get rid of the classifieds. As one person put it - they guess that if we're gonna be jerks about making them login to buy or sell, they'll just take their toys and go over to eBoy or PN with them - groovy! Best way to offload that dross.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[zpuskas]

I don't have a problem with logging in to buy and sell.(that seems fair enough, required even) ...I have a problem with logging in to view. And no I don't have a problem opening doors nor make veiled threats.

 

[bmattock]

I don't have a problem with logging in to buy and sell.(that seems fair enough, required even) ...I have a problem with logging in to view.

Still not sure how that is a problem. I don't even have to click to login, it's just on all the time - I browse to RFF and I'm already logged in. Cookies, I suppose. If I happen to click on logout, well, we are talking about actually typing a username and password and clicking a button. Wow, hard work.

And no I don't have a problem opening doors nor make veiled threats.

Oh, did someone else say this?

Now I'm not as active as many members here...but I have financially supported this forum with direct cash (including book and hat) and this inconvenience may make me reconsider that in the future.

Sounds like "here's my two cents, and now that I've coughed up some dough, if you don't do what I prefer, I *may* take my financial support and go home."

Did I read that wrong somehow?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks