Lol999
Member
All semantics, and other literary/grammatical sayings aside Ruben it is your sheer joy of the photograph that shines through along with your enthusiasm for street photography in general. Someone can declare something to be the best as a statement of fact (although in this instance I suspect it was meant as a personal opinion, not a universal edict), but I reserve the right to disagree and I won't be offended in the nature of their language in the first place.
All the best, Lol
All the best, Lol
blw
Well-known
Well I'm in ruben's camp here, because I love the photo and added a comment accordingly. Thanks very much to ruben for calling my attention to it.
As for your revelation ruben, I congratulate you. I'm emboldened to try this technique myself. Thanks so much for sharing your enthusiasm and knowledge.
As for your revelation ruben, I congratulate you. I'm emboldened to try this technique myself. Thanks so much for sharing your enthusiasm and knowledge.
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R
ruben
Guest
Hi folks all,
There is a saying in Hebrew sleng saying something like his urine climbed to his brains. The meaning is that when a person get too much praise he becomes overconfident and contemptuos towards his fellows.
Kindly help me.
As for the pictures I did with the new tactics, I am not sure they will be great, for the simple reason that I am starting something new, to be polished with time. Any new technique requires the performer to study and practice it, to know its limits and weak sides. So let's be patient, giving time to time.
Since I made a turn towards the artistic challenge of photography, which was a great change in my mind, I went very much excited on one hand, and therefore had to balance it by letting myself evolve by innertia, slowly, according to my feelings at each moment.
And at many opportunities I didn't photographed a good potential image out of fear. But immediately afterwards I didn't feel guilty, but rather forgiving to myself: "it will come with time and experience".
Slow, slow. Easy. I am not running for Presidency.
Cheers,
Ruben
There is a saying in Hebrew sleng saying something like his urine climbed to his brains. The meaning is that when a person get too much praise he becomes overconfident and contemptuos towards his fellows.
Kindly help me.
As for the pictures I did with the new tactics, I am not sure they will be great, for the simple reason that I am starting something new, to be polished with time. Any new technique requires the performer to study and practice it, to know its limits and weak sides. So let's be patient, giving time to time.
Since I made a turn towards the artistic challenge of photography, which was a great change in my mind, I went very much excited on one hand, and therefore had to balance it by letting myself evolve by innertia, slowly, according to my feelings at each moment.
And at many opportunities I didn't photographed a good potential image out of fear. But immediately afterwards I didn't feel guilty, but rather forgiving to myself: "it will come with time and experience".
Slow, slow. Easy. I am not running for Presidency.
Cheers,
Ruben
kevin m
Veteran
Agreed. It's a decent, illustrative shot, that's it.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I've noticed that in this age of human contact starvation, pictures that have subject directly looking into the camera have a special appeal...mainly because hardly anybody looks you in the eye nowadays in most industrialized countries where urban paranoia is sadly mixed with the Go-Go-Go pace of life which requires e-mail and voicemail and online shopping.ruben said:
Just as people living in "tropical" climates are in awe of Northern Fall colors, those living in "temperate" and "colder" climates are in awe of "tropical paradise"s.
What's exceptional about Beniliam's images isn't that people are looking into the camera (which is where many people's fascination begins and ends), but that there is an engagement by the photographer with his subjects.
And regardless of whose images we talk about, B&W always helps. Only a few can pull color off to the same effect. Again, because most people are used to color and are in awe of B&W... etc etc etc
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Beware of formulas. That may be true, but I think you're reducing an image to a single quality.ruben said:
Which one of these two do you find more "engaging" (between the two)?
or...
The eyes carry a lot of weight, but they are no silver bullet.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
My experience tells me that that sentiment is pervasive in many parts of the U.S. Midwest (unless you're a female photographer). Interestingly enough, I didn't find that was the case in Germany, France and the Netherlands.maddoc said:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Yes and no. I've seen him in action, and both Marc-A. and I had both shocked and resigned reactions (shocked for his güevos and agallas, and resigned for not having his güevos nor agallas).ClaremontPhoto said:
I have seen Marc-A's latest photos, and I can see he learned a few things from the Master. I have tried, too, but you don't want to do much of that in a place where it's ok for Average Joe (and Deranged Joe) to carry weapons.
Anyway... anybody who is "outside" "wants to be seen", depending on logic and point of view.
But sitting ducks? Beniliam doesn't hunt sitting ducks. He chases life and seizes it. It's something you have to both feel and let overcome you in tune with your art.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
(btw, sorry joes, I used a "common expression". Average Gabriel and Deranged Gabriel doesn't quite have the same delivery) 
Ororaro
Well-known
maddoc said:
Gabor, this is extremely interesting!
Over the years I've become able to instantly differentiate a photogaph taken by a japanese (and any oriental person, to some extent) Versus the rest of the world. They are almost always Boke shots of some extreme close-up object or flower, always very colorful and almost never of people.
Have you noticed that, too? I tried to understand WHY and HOW COME this phenomena existed but I think I now understand. It's just because out of politeness. I guess this makes me extremely impolite
R
ruben
Guest
Quoted by Gabriel:
Originally Posted by ruben
But it was precisely the woman's special glance into Formal's what was not staged at all and became, for me, the center of interest of the picture[/I].
Gabriel:
Beware of formulas. That may be true, but I think you're reducing an image to a single quality
Quoted by Gabriel:
Originally Posted by ruben:
ps
Of course, I don't mean to say all pictures must be done with the subject looking into the camera.
Gabriel, please. I was talking about a specific image and you can find my whole appreciation at the gallery, below Formal's pic. You could contribute more by extending your viepoint of that specific image in detail, and then show my mistake, if I am mistaken, or just your view.
As for the two images you show, they are not usefull to me since I personally find none of them particularly engaging, nor those eyes carrying any weight. But this is just me. Along the same rail some folks don't find Formal's image of special interest.
"Beware of formulas" you say. I say don't beware of anything, try everything and judge by yourself.
Cheers,
Ruben
Originally Posted by ruben
But it was precisely the woman's special glance into Formal's what was not staged at all and became, for me, the center of interest of the picture[/I].
Gabriel:
Beware of formulas. That may be true, but I think you're reducing an image to a single quality
Quoted by Gabriel:
Originally Posted by ruben:
ps
Of course, I don't mean to say all pictures must be done with the subject looking into the camera.
Gabriel, please. I was talking about a specific image and you can find my whole appreciation at the gallery, below Formal's pic. You could contribute more by extending your viepoint of that specific image in detail, and then show my mistake, if I am mistaken, or just your view.
As for the two images you show, they are not usefull to me since I personally find none of them particularly engaging, nor those eyes carrying any weight. But this is just me. Along the same rail some folks don't find Formal's image of special interest.
"Beware of formulas" you say. I say don't beware of anything, try everything and judge by yourself.
Cheers,
Ruben
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le vrai rdu
Well-known
well ruben, can you show us a few pictures with your new technique ? (excuse me if I missed them)
I also encourage you to use full apperture , it is so beautiful
I also encourage you to use full apperture , it is so beautiful
R
ruben
Guest
le vrai rdu said:well ruben, can you show us a few pictures with your new technique ? (excuse me if I missed them)
I also encourage you to use full apperture , it is so beautiful
Go to post #96
Besides I am at mid roll with this.
But you can go to Formal's image "more beef", and study the relative weight in that picture of the girl glancing towards Formal.
Cheers,
Ruben
gb hill
Veteran
Ruben great thread. One thing that is so great about photography and veiwing photos is that we all have different taste. Does a photo thats declared a "masterpiece," a masterpiece only if liked or accepted by everybody? The dictionary states that a masterpiece is an exceptionally good work of art. The artist greatest acheivement. In my opinion the photo that Ruben speaks of "more beef" if one only focuses their attention on the young girl, you miss the more interesting expressions of the people in the background. It's all the expressions combined that makes the photo work for me. Not being afraid to get that look or expression is what makes a good street shot or any other shot alot of the time.
gb hill
Veteran
sitemistic: I like the old fellows look. Makes me wonder what he's thinking.
John Camp
Well-known
The problem is, too many security guards *used to be* WalMart greeters...when you think about what a security guard does 99.9 percent of the time -- nothing -- you can see why governments are reluctant to pay for good quality people; on the other hand, when you need them, you *really* need them, and then most of the time you've got a f*ck up on your hands...One thing that George Orwell never foresaw was that the wardens of the future would be idiots who struggle to make the minimum wage...
I have to say that I've heard that thing about aboriginals not liking their picture taken, about their soul somehow being snatched, of about every aboriginal nation I've ever come across. Most of them never had such a problem in the beginning; the problem only developed when the photographers got annoying, or the aboriginals saw people making money from them, and they weren't getting any. I mean, how can an aboriginal have an ancient tradition about a camera, when cameras didn't show up until a hundred years ago? Usually you're told about this in solemnity, and you have to honor it, just in case, but when you really get to know some of them (northern American plains Indians in my case) they mostly just laugh. What they're really objecting to is being treated as some kind of object, or as an example of poverty. If you go to Santa Monica, CA, you'll find tribes of street people who similarly object to being photographed...
One place that does have that tradition is most of the Levant, where there have been wars over the making of icons... but even there, much of it now seems to be the annoyance of locals who are having their photos taken without permission by somebody who has about three-years of the local salaries hung around their necks. But it's not at all universal: I've had cops in Cairo *ask* me to take their photos...
That whole thing about privacy. This doesn't apply to other countries, but there is no mention of privacy or the right to privacy in the US Constitution, for the very good reason that most of the founders didn't think there really was much of a right to privacy. On the contrary, too much privacy means that democracy can't function as it should. For a democracy to work, all kinds of things have to be known by the public, who, after all, are responsible (through their representatives) for setting public policy. That idea is now being eroded, with various people "discovering" a right to privacy in the Constitution, but it never really was there. In the proto-Democratic village councils in New England, even matters such as conjugal relations between husband and wife were openly discussed, if someone were failing in their duty. I think part of the impulse to "privacy" is nothing more than the question if, in this media-saturated society, that somebody might be making a buck from *my* image, and I'm not getting a piece of it.
JC
I have to say that I've heard that thing about aboriginals not liking their picture taken, about their soul somehow being snatched, of about every aboriginal nation I've ever come across. Most of them never had such a problem in the beginning; the problem only developed when the photographers got annoying, or the aboriginals saw people making money from them, and they weren't getting any. I mean, how can an aboriginal have an ancient tradition about a camera, when cameras didn't show up until a hundred years ago? Usually you're told about this in solemnity, and you have to honor it, just in case, but when you really get to know some of them (northern American plains Indians in my case) they mostly just laugh. What they're really objecting to is being treated as some kind of object, or as an example of poverty. If you go to Santa Monica, CA, you'll find tribes of street people who similarly object to being photographed...
One place that does have that tradition is most of the Levant, where there have been wars over the making of icons... but even there, much of it now seems to be the annoyance of locals who are having their photos taken without permission by somebody who has about three-years of the local salaries hung around their necks. But it's not at all universal: I've had cops in Cairo *ask* me to take their photos...
That whole thing about privacy. This doesn't apply to other countries, but there is no mention of privacy or the right to privacy in the US Constitution, for the very good reason that most of the founders didn't think there really was much of a right to privacy. On the contrary, too much privacy means that democracy can't function as it should. For a democracy to work, all kinds of things have to be known by the public, who, after all, are responsible (through their representatives) for setting public policy. That idea is now being eroded, with various people "discovering" a right to privacy in the Constitution, but it never really was there. In the proto-Democratic village councils in New England, even matters such as conjugal relations between husband and wife were openly discussed, if someone were failing in their duty. I think part of the impulse to "privacy" is nothing more than the question if, in this media-saturated society, that somebody might be making a buck from *my* image, and I'm not getting a piece of it.
JC
John Camp
Well-known
Not to continue the rant above, but I bet if you were taking street photographs as Ruben has decribed, and a woman asked you what you were doing, and you said, sincerely, "making you into a piece of art,' that they would not object.
JC
JC
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Gabriel M.A. said:
I do miss Beniliam's photo's and regret not meeting the guy yet and watching him with his camera.
It does seem harsh that he cannot publish his street photos while I can see the Spanish gossip magazine 'Hola' in a cafe this morning. Full of photos of celebrities doing silly things. My latest preference is Princess Bea wide-eyed and legless almost every night.
I know Beniliam uses a Konica Hexar and at one time we talked in PM's about whether he used the stealth mode and photographed from the hip; but he assured me he raised the camera to his eye.
That guy has got 'tomates'. [That's what they say in Portugal, and now I understand why the market seller used to laugh when I told her I needed some big tomatoes.]
R
ruben
Guest
Hi sitemistic,
There is a whole world of emotions each one of us carry within. I have given already a contrary example by stating that although I reckognize the high quality of many landscape pictures, this genre in general does not appeal to me to look at. Nor flowers or insects. In my special case, I can admire these types of pictures, reckognize the delicate approach of the photographer, his high technique, and still not be shaken. This is the flat side of my mind. Although I am very sensible to animals including birds.
Fortunately I am not a picture editor, nor a member of a picture expo competition jury team.
I have not been the only one high prizing Formal's image, more beef.
Now, sitemistic, I don't accept your invitation, sorry, What I had to say about Formal's image, I have said it twice below his picture and refined along this thread. And this thread has made me to realize further elements to celebrete at Formal's more beef : The whole image is a kind of song to life, of the sort Spannish speaking people could understand from Carlos Gardel tangos, a twisted tragy-comic parody, written in the most slenguish style, with extraordinary rythm, bearing a lot of sense.
It is ceirtainly unappropiate to bring to the fore for comparizon, as Gabriel has, a picture of your own, not to speak that the specific one is, for me, not matching your high capabilities. By far.
But it ceirtainly will be of interest to me, to compare Formal's image to another of your choice, but not of your own as to discard the personal element involved. You can choose among the reckognized Masters of Photography, and Formal's picture will stand its own. Or you could pick, I am talking just from the hip, one of Memphis pics. I mention Memphis, since in such a case most of the chances are I will be making differentiations but prizing it too. The eye contact is of secondary importance in such a comparizon.
No need to say that for a comparizon with one of Memphis pics, you will need his previous agreement.
Friends as before,
Ruben
PS
It is not just about eye contact, but what those eyes communicate to you. Beniliam uses to say something like the eyes are the windows to the soul. I add that sometimes such windows are closed, and sometimes open in a photo.
There is a whole world of emotions each one of us carry within. I have given already a contrary example by stating that although I reckognize the high quality of many landscape pictures, this genre in general does not appeal to me to look at. Nor flowers or insects. In my special case, I can admire these types of pictures, reckognize the delicate approach of the photographer, his high technique, and still not be shaken. This is the flat side of my mind. Although I am very sensible to animals including birds.
Fortunately I am not a picture editor, nor a member of a picture expo competition jury team.
I have not been the only one high prizing Formal's image, more beef.
Now, sitemistic, I don't accept your invitation, sorry, What I had to say about Formal's image, I have said it twice below his picture and refined along this thread. And this thread has made me to realize further elements to celebrete at Formal's more beef : The whole image is a kind of song to life, of the sort Spannish speaking people could understand from Carlos Gardel tangos, a twisted tragy-comic parody, written in the most slenguish style, with extraordinary rythm, bearing a lot of sense.
It is ceirtainly unappropiate to bring to the fore for comparizon, as Gabriel has, a picture of your own, not to speak that the specific one is, for me, not matching your high capabilities. By far.
But it ceirtainly will be of interest to me, to compare Formal's image to another of your choice, but not of your own as to discard the personal element involved. You can choose among the reckognized Masters of Photography, and Formal's picture will stand its own. Or you could pick, I am talking just from the hip, one of Memphis pics. I mention Memphis, since in such a case most of the chances are I will be making differentiations but prizing it too. The eye contact is of secondary importance in such a comparizon.
No need to say that for a comparizon with one of Memphis pics, you will need his previous agreement.
Friends as before,
Ruben
PS
It is not just about eye contact, but what those eyes communicate to you. Beniliam uses to say something like the eyes are the windows to the soul. I add that sometimes such windows are closed, and sometimes open in a photo.
formal
***
I'm finding this thread extremely interesting and while I wouldn't call "More Beef" a masterpiece, I'm very flattered by Ruben's enjoyment of the image. I do not view myself as an artist, but I'm pleased when one of my images provokes a strong reaction.
One of the reasons I use the 24mm lens is to force myself to get close and engage with subjects. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, but I rarely try to conceal my camera or take candid shots.
As Ruben has observed, I used the technique of framing the picture and waiting to the moment when the subject realizes that you are taking a picture and makes eye contact. Of course in this case the girl was posing, but in general this techniques gets an engaged subject before they start posing.
As some people have observed, the background in this image is very important. Obviously I position myself to get this general composition, but an interesting background is always a matter of luck.
I think that using a flash would be to obtrusive and I don't have the courage, but I have a friend who does and I'm impressed that Ruben has managed it.
David
One of the reasons I use the 24mm lens is to force myself to get close and engage with subjects. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, but I rarely try to conceal my camera or take candid shots.
As Ruben has observed, I used the technique of framing the picture and waiting to the moment when the subject realizes that you are taking a picture and makes eye contact. Of course in this case the girl was posing, but in general this techniques gets an engaged subject before they start posing.
As some people have observed, the background in this image is very important. Obviously I position myself to get this general composition, but an interesting background is always a matter of luck.
I think that using a flash would be to obtrusive and I don't have the courage, but I have a friend who does and I'm impressed that Ruben has managed it.
David