jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Been expecting my IIIa for a few days now. Looked a good deal on eBay and the price was a good one. Seller in the States and a 'good' guy. No hassle over payment and good communication.
Got a letter this morning demanding VAT payment by HM Revenue & Customs.
To add insult to perceived injury, also a demand from Parcelforce for £8 Clearance Fee.
I'm NOT a happy bunny at all! :bang:
Is this experience of buying a 50+ year old camera from an overseas non EU buyer typical of other people's experience? Perhaps Ive just been unlucky this time round!
Do I appeal to Customs, and am I likely to be successful?
What basis can I use?
Also if I send a camera to Oleg for a CLA I suppose I can expect VAT on his charges. Has this been other's experience?
Got a letter this morning demanding VAT payment by HM Revenue & Customs.
To add insult to perceived injury, also a demand from Parcelforce for £8 Clearance Fee.
I'm NOT a happy bunny at all! :bang:
Is this experience of buying a 50+ year old camera from an overseas non EU buyer typical of other people's experience? Perhaps Ive just been unlucky this time round!
Do I appeal to Customs, and am I likely to be successful?
What basis can I use?
Also if I send a camera to Oleg for a CLA I suppose I can expect VAT on his charges. Has this been other's experience?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You're lucky
:bang: , had he sent it by UPS you'd have to pay hefty handling charges there as well
:bang: , had he sent it by UPS you'd have to pay hefty handling charges there as well lubitel
Well-known
yeap, I try not to order from other countries unless its under 35 euros. I paid 25 percent for customs when I got my CV35 lens from canada. That hurt.
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
jaapv said:You're lucky
£8 IS hefty!! That's 8 cans from the off-license, or 2 and a half pints in the pub!!!
markinlondon
Elmar user
You can expect to be charged 6% or 8% plus 17.5% VAT on any import from outside the EU. Sometimes you get lucky and the C&E tend not to charge on items under about US$50 value. I've been charged for CD orders before now. Interestingly, this is how 7dayshop works. They use a loophole where VAT is exempt on imports under £18 and split their orders accodingly so each shipment is under the magic sum. The Parcelfarce fee is just their own invention.
Bill58
Native Texan
Join the club--I get hit w/ a 20% import tax sometimes by the Korean government; however, they are not very efficient.......and tax evasion of all kinds is rampant here.
Koreans ask the ebay seller to put "gift" on the customs declaration form and it works. I have no idea whether the "Queen's" tax slueths would be wise to that or not.
Koreans ask the ebay seller to put "gift" on the customs declaration form and it works. I have no idea whether the "Queen's" tax slueths would be wise to that or not.
Terry Astor
Member
That is very peculiar, the customs asking VAT on a used and very old item. I assume you are a UK resident, and I also assume there was an invoice from the seller acompanying the parcel, on the value of which VAT at 17.5% would be based. The clearance charge is actually quite reasonable. My only personal experience, from the mid 80's is a very happy one, in view of yours. I bought from a NY based dealer, by credit card on the 'phone, two rather special and fairly rare lenses: an Elmarit R 28/f2.8 and an Elmar R 180/f4, both in khaki (Safari) livery. The lenses were absolutely and totally new, with guarantees etc enclosed, and left the dealer with the boxes still sealed! They were sent by US Mail parcel post -no courrier! They reached me 4 days later, the boxes carefully opened by the the UK's Mail customs department, but the lenses had not been taken out or unwrapped from their original cellophanes. The invoice, totalling something like US$750 was inside the package, together with a note from the post office with "...apologies for opening the packs, which is a routine procedure..." Strictly speaking, as the goods were new, and were so described in the invoice, I should have to pay not only VAT but import duty as well, which I did not. I was puzzled at the time and thought I might have "escaped" from duties because the goods were marked all over as "Made in Germany", ie in the EU. No clearance charges either! I feel sorry for your experience but I only hope you are compensated by a long and satisfactory camera user relationship!
Regards
Terry
Regards
Terry
Sonnar2
Well-known
It's the same stuff with sending items from USA to Germany.
Before 2005 German most cheapo "GLS" was carrying out the most expensive USA shipments. That means the first 5000km took 2 days and the last 50km additional 2 weeks, plus they added an invoice for "handling fee" for bad service which I never paid, just the customs fee. Drivers unable to read or speak German or English, I have to add, and Saturdays no service at all.
Now the usual way is "DHL" or German Post. They don't charge fees in addition to customs and sometimes it is even free of customs (if the box is small? Unforeseeable). Sometimes they do the clearing and you pay at your home-door or Post office when taking it, sometimes you need to go to your customs office (in my case, 25km off). Depends on how well an item is described (if any) and how good the particular customs officer is willing to read English. They charge about 22% of the total (sometimes including the shipment costs, sometimes not, unforeseeable) and the procedure takes half an hour (friendly officers though).
Once I get a hat from Australia it took 20 minutes to search for the right customs number because there was no declaration whether the hat was made of felt, cotton, or fell (and of which animal).
When I get a camera they want to know which format, roll or flat film. When I get a lens the customs depends on focal length (but independent of format).
Therefore when they are involved, this adds 2-4 weeks to the shipment, and no status (online tracking) is available.
No problems with cheap items (about 50 USD) sended as Air parcel. They arrive very fast. My experience: the more expensive and fast the shipment, the longer it takes at customs.
cheers Frank
Before 2005 German most cheapo "GLS" was carrying out the most expensive USA shipments. That means the first 5000km took 2 days and the last 50km additional 2 weeks, plus they added an invoice for "handling fee" for bad service which I never paid, just the customs fee. Drivers unable to read or speak German or English, I have to add, and Saturdays no service at all.
Now the usual way is "DHL" or German Post. They don't charge fees in addition to customs and sometimes it is even free of customs (if the box is small? Unforeseeable). Sometimes they do the clearing and you pay at your home-door or Post office when taking it, sometimes you need to go to your customs office (in my case, 25km off). Depends on how well an item is described (if any) and how good the particular customs officer is willing to read English. They charge about 22% of the total (sometimes including the shipment costs, sometimes not, unforeseeable) and the procedure takes half an hour (friendly officers though).
Once I get a hat from Australia it took 20 minutes to search for the right customs number because there was no declaration whether the hat was made of felt, cotton, or fell (and of which animal).
When I get a camera they want to know which format, roll or flat film. When I get a lens the customs depends on focal length (but independent of format).
Therefore when they are involved, this adds 2-4 weeks to the shipment, and no status (online tracking) is available.
No problems with cheap items (about 50 USD) sended as Air parcel. They arrive very fast. My experience: the more expensive and fast the shipment, the longer it takes at customs.
cheers Frank
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Well, at least I'm not the only one being charged VAT!
I will wait until the camera arrives, and then ring the Customs, to see if I can find out what is and is not duty free for old cameras made in Germany - I like that point.
Paying the duty was an interesting exercise - all done with an automated service, no human involved!. And, the letter demanding duty only had the automated service telephone number. I suppose among the options there might have been one directing me to a human, and I just missed it!
I'm promised a Monday delivery - I refused to pay £12 extra for one for tomorrow Saturday!!
I'll let folks know if I make any progress.
I will wait until the camera arrives, and then ring the Customs, to see if I can find out what is and is not duty free for old cameras made in Germany - I like that point.
Paying the duty was an interesting exercise - all done with an automated service, no human involved!. And, the letter demanding duty only had the automated service telephone number. I suppose among the options there might have been one directing me to a human, and I just missed it!
I'm promised a Monday delivery - I refused to pay £12 extra for one for tomorrow Saturday!!
I'll let folks know if I make any progress.
darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
I paid VAT to the czech customs office when I received the Contax-III I bought in Canada from our fellow an esteemed friend FrankS. The VAT is collected by the post office where you go pickup the parcel here. Anyway, the deal was as smooth as possible As soon as a value is declared on a parcel that doesn't comes from within the EU, the country where the parcel is delivered can claim import taxes.
As soon as a value is declared on a parcel that doesn't comes from within the EU, the country where the parcel is delivered can claim import taxes.PeterL
--
I once refused a deal on a good lens because it had to come from the States. It seems in Belgium, if they open the package, taxes would be around 25%. Most of the time, customs doesn't care, but when they do, it's expensive. I'm limiting all my online purchases to EU only.
Peter.
Peter.
Niko
Established
I live in Finland. And i also try to buy the stuff inside EU, if available.
I always have to pay VAT+customs. In total about 27%. What really bugs me is that i pay these charges also for the shipping cost. And even more amazingly i even pay VAT for customs charges as well It doesn´t matter anything if the stuff is new, old, broken, anything. Crazy.
Niko
I always have to pay VAT+customs. In total about 27%. What really bugs me is that i pay these charges also for the shipping cost. And even more amazingly i even pay VAT for customs charges as well
It doesn´t matter anything if the stuff is new, old, broken, anything. Crazy.Niko
V
varjag
Guest
Mmm customs..
I'm in the process of claiming back 2nd VAT for my scanner from the Norwegian customs. It was dead on arrival, got sent back to the shop who spent 2 months "checking" in and sent me relpacement. Of course, forgetting to mark it as such, so it's not customs' fault.
The most outrageous case was back in Belarus. Not only I had to get to the customs warehouse at airport well oustide the city, spend half a day in commute and queues, but they also wanted $30-something import fee for and $9 book sent me as a present. Really annoying.
I'm in the process of claiming back 2nd VAT for my scanner from the Norwegian customs. It was dead on arrival, got sent back to the shop who spent 2 months "checking" in and sent me relpacement. Of course, forgetting to mark it as such, so it's not customs' fault.
The most outrageous case was back in Belarus. Not only I had to get to the customs warehouse at airport well oustide the city, spend half a day in commute and queues, but they also wanted $30-something import fee for and $9 book sent me as a present. Really annoying.
edodo
Well-known
My experience when buying my Leica IIIa from the states is to get it shipped by usps priority airmail, it is insured, reached France in two long weeks, but I never had to pay taxes even if the seller declares the good and their value. I also bought a new US telecaster neck (for an electric guitar) and had it shipped via priority airmail, same no taxe at all. My experience is that express shipping methods DO charge all the taxes...
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
jesse1dog said:
I'd say that's extremely unlikely, Jesse. It's never happened to me and I've had at least 10 transactions with Oleg and dozens with the FSU. The Royal Mail seem to home in on packages from the States, ignoring those from points east (including China, IME). I can only echo earlier remarks and wish that some of our American friends would not include postage in the stated value of the goods....
Cheers, Ian
clintock
Galleryless Gearhead
Do you guys vote to be taxed like that, or do you still have a king or something? I suppose with high Value Added Taxes, you have no income tax, so there's an up side.
I like to call lenses and bodies, 'used camera repair parts', not a lie, neither can be considered a camera, I suppose repair parts may not get zapped with the tax, I don't know.
I like to call lenses and bodies, 'used camera repair parts', not a lie, neither can be considered a camera, I suppose repair parts may not get zapped with the tax, I don't know.
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Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
LOL no income tax?!!?!??!
PeterL
--
We have a king, but he doesn't decide all this: he only signs what parliament passes. "Still have a king", therefore, is a rather silly cliché.
Our income tax is around 50%, VAT is the EU standard and then there's the import taxes. What we do not have is taxes on capital increase, i.e. if I buy stock at €1 and sell it at €1000 then I only pay VAT on the transaction fees. Also, I just quit work for a 2 year sabbatical with a "sabbatical leave" from the government. Those 2 benefits have over the years more than made up for all weird import taxes on cameras etc. In any case, if I buy my second hand gear in the EU, I avoid those taxes anyway. There's big enough a market over here, sometimes I just need to be a bit more patient for the exact item I want to pop up.
Peter.
Our income tax is around 50%, VAT is the EU standard and then there's the import taxes. What we do not have is taxes on capital increase, i.e. if I buy stock at €1 and sell it at €1000 then I only pay VAT on the transaction fees. Also, I just quit work for a 2 year sabbatical with a "sabbatical leave" from the government. Those 2 benefits have over the years more than made up for all weird import taxes on cameras etc. In any case, if I buy my second hand gear in the EU, I avoid those taxes anyway. There's big enough a market over here, sometimes I just need to be a bit more patient for the exact item I want to pop up.
Peter.
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Another good idea to try!!
Another good idea to try!!
Don't get me on about Income Tax. I've already had to argue with the Tax Office over various allowances. How come I could get the right interpretation from their guidance notes, and they couldn't? Managed to save £225 with that battle - only took a couple of hours!
I like the idea of trying to tell Customs they charged me for 'used camera repair parts'. I'll try the 50+ year old idea, and the idea that they were made in a country in the EU. Be interesting to see what they say on Monday - if the 'repair parts' arrive then!
Another good idea to try!!
clintock said:
Don't get me on about Income Tax. I've already had to argue with the Tax Office over various allowances. How come I could get the right interpretation from their guidance notes, and they couldn't? Managed to save £225 with that battle - only took a couple of hours!
I like the idea of trying to tell Customs they charged me for 'used camera repair parts'. I'll try the 50+ year old idea, and the idea that they were made in a country in the EU. Be interesting to see what they say on Monday - if the 'repair parts' arrive then!
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
IIIa arrived!
IIIa arrived!
Parcel Force produced my parcel this morning. Had to sign for it and did so very dubiously and with an added word 'unchecked'. The parcel had been opened and came with the bottom flaps folded over and certainly not sealed. No indication that the contents had been inspected by HM Revenue and Customs - and no label to that effect on the outside of the package.
Rang Parcel Force to let them know the state of the box. No real response except that it was unlikly to be their responsibility. Rang HM Revenue and Customs - it took nearly 50 attempts to get through! Their records showed that an unopened package was handed over to Parcel Force. Rang Parcel Force again and talked to one of their managers who seemed not to want to know. Had anything gone missing from the package and if it hadn't what was I bothering about -was the impression I got. Not quite the point though.
HM Revenue and Customs provided a very helpful answering guy - when I got to talk to him. My camera came under 'cameras, parts and accessories' and was subject to Import Duty and VAT. As the declared value was $150 and import duty was charged at 3.76% (did I imagine that figure?) the amount to be charged was less than 8 euros. So I wasn't liable for import duty! VAT was due on declared value and postage. So that cleared an issue. That the camera body was 60 years old was of no interest - it had to be 100 years old to qualify for a reduction in duty rate to 5%. That the camera was made in a country within the EU made no difference because VAT was liable on goods from those countries.
Result - nice guy to talk to who knew what he was talking about, but no reduction in duty paid. So no progress, some frustration, and I don't feel too much better.
But what about the camera? As illustrated it had a metal body cap. On arrival it had a plastic one. Seller when asked replied the cap hadn't been included in the sale. Seems what is illustrated isn't always what you get. OK - no great deal. There are a few odd chrome bits missing - slow speed dial, and that wasn't quite what the description had led me to believe but I can live with that. The mechanics do seem silky smooth though, much better than on the Ic for instance. I might have a great 'user' here - I get that impression.
IIIa arrived!
Parcel Force produced my parcel this morning. Had to sign for it and did so very dubiously and with an added word 'unchecked'. The parcel had been opened and came with the bottom flaps folded over and certainly not sealed. No indication that the contents had been inspected by HM Revenue and Customs - and no label to that effect on the outside of the package.
Rang Parcel Force to let them know the state of the box. No real response except that it was unlikly to be their responsibility. Rang HM Revenue and Customs - it took nearly 50 attempts to get through! Their records showed that an unopened package was handed over to Parcel Force. Rang Parcel Force again and talked to one of their managers who seemed not to want to know. Had anything gone missing from the package and if it hadn't what was I bothering about -was the impression I got. Not quite the point though.
HM Revenue and Customs provided a very helpful answering guy - when I got to talk to him. My camera came under 'cameras, parts and accessories' and was subject to Import Duty and VAT. As the declared value was $150 and import duty was charged at 3.76% (did I imagine that figure?) the amount to be charged was less than 8 euros. So I wasn't liable for import duty! VAT was due on declared value and postage. So that cleared an issue. That the camera body was 60 years old was of no interest - it had to be 100 years old to qualify for a reduction in duty rate to 5%. That the camera was made in a country within the EU made no difference because VAT was liable on goods from those countries.
Result - nice guy to talk to who knew what he was talking about, but no reduction in duty paid. So no progress, some frustration, and I don't feel too much better.
But what about the camera? As illustrated it had a metal body cap. On arrival it had a plastic one. Seller when asked replied the cap hadn't been included in the sale. Seems what is illustrated isn't always what you get. OK - no great deal. There are a few odd chrome bits missing - slow speed dial, and that wasn't quite what the description had led me to believe but I can live with that. The mechanics do seem silky smooth though, much better than on the Ic for instance. I might have a great 'user' here - I get that impression.