barnwulf
Well-known
I don't shoot with my II or IIIc very often but every time I take one out it's just fun to shoot with them. Get one, you will love it. Jim
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
Make sure to look into the Zeiss 35 also.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Paul,
They're OK. They're fun. I still have my very first Leica, a 1936 IIIa. I was 19 when I bought it, and the camera was 33.
But quite honestly, I suspect that my 1951 Retina IIa may be a better camera in most of the ways that matter to me, and I'm absolutely sure that my Ms are better iin just about all the ways that matter to me.
In other words, by all means buy one for fun, because you'll lose little or nothing if you sell it again, but don't necessarily believe that you will adore it in the same way that some do. After all, if they were actually better than Ms, in the eyes of more than a minority, supply and demand would mean that they'd cost more too.
I quite like putting the collapsible Elmar from my IIIa onto an M2...
Cheers,
R.
They're OK. They're fun. I still have my very first Leica, a 1936 IIIa. I was 19 when I bought it, and the camera was 33.
But quite honestly, I suspect that my 1951 Retina IIa may be a better camera in most of the ways that matter to me, and I'm absolutely sure that my Ms are better iin just about all the ways that matter to me.
In other words, by all means buy one for fun, because you'll lose little or nothing if you sell it again, but don't necessarily believe that you will adore it in the same way that some do. After all, if they were actually better than Ms, in the eyes of more than a minority, supply and demand would mean that they'd cost more too.
I quite like putting the collapsible Elmar from my IIIa onto an M2...
Cheers,
R.
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Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Well if you want to try something more exotic but still in Barnack fasion, could try an original Leica factory conversion. It has the favors of the one that HelenH describes, but combines these with the flash synch introduced in the early fifties......mine is a IIa but there are some beautiful IIIa's out there....
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Nomad Z
Well-known
IIIf RD ST, with 35mm Skopar Classic and cheapie Russian 35mm finder...
MISH
Well-known
I am not saying that it will be better for you than a M (or even a Retina) but when you consider that I payed way over twice as much for a recent M purchase as I did for my IIIf, I think the fun per cost ratio is quite attractive. For me this kind of completes my Leica experience and I could give you all the excuses I use to justify my need for one, I think you will find that you do not have to like it near as much as I do and it will still be a worthwhile purchase for you. Plus there is the birth year camera idea that I for one find very attractive
ferider
Veteran
Save your money and by an M2, Paul, that's where GAS will lead you anyways 
Or, save some money and buy a Canon P. Even period correct cameras were better than the Barnacks.
Sorry to all the Barnack lovers, but nothing can replace parallax corrected framelines for shooting .... Hard to compose when you are trying to figure what's at the other end of a tunnel
And I did have both iiif and iic.
Roland.
Or, save some money and buy a Canon P. Even period correct cameras were better than the Barnacks.
Sorry to all the Barnack lovers, but nothing can replace parallax corrected framelines for shooting .... Hard to compose when you are trying to figure what's at the other end of a tunnel
And I did have both iiif and iic.
Roland.
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The Standard Deviant
inanimated.co.uk
Oh dear, with the birth year idea, I'd be forced to have one of the first Canon EOS SLRs
Luckily, I have a IIIf.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I think the thing I like most about the screwmounts is that in spite of being incredibly simple they still manage to feel very refined. A recently CLA'd LTM gives you a feeling when shooting that no other camera is capable of IMO.
literiter
Well-known
I don't think people buy a Barnack because they want to be practical.Save your money and by an M2, Paul, that's where GAS will lead you anyways
Or, save some money and buy a Canon P. Even period correct cameras were better than the Barnacks.
Sorry to all the Barnack lovers, but nothing can replace parallax corrected framelines for shooting .... Hard to compose when you are trying to figure what's at the other end of a tunnel
And I did have both iiif and iic.
Roland.
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ferider
Veteran
Neither did I. Still they ended up sitting on the shelf ....
Let me say it like this: it was lots of fun to ride across the US on my Fatboy (San Jose <-> Denver). I wouldn't do it in a Model T, however
Bingley
Veteran
I think Roland is correct about an M2 or a Canon P being the better camera (or at least easier to use), but if you want a camera that's as old as you are then neither an M nor a P will cut it.
FWIW, I actually enjoy shooting w/ my IIIc, BTW, a lot. Particularly w/ the 50 Elmar and the CV Skopar 50. It's not a shelf queen.
That said, I have no intention of giving up my M2 ...
FWIW, I actually enjoy shooting w/ my IIIc, BTW, a lot. Particularly w/ the 50 Elmar and the CV Skopar 50. It's not a shelf queen.
That said, I have no intention of giving up my M2 ...
sparrow6224
Well-known
Paul --
KEH has some black dials and red dials right now, decent prices; stick to the ones that are working.... It's weird they'd rate a camera EX and charge like $300 for it and say in the text "shutter inoperative". However, you can feel good going for their "BGN" stuff; it often looks great. You can call them and get them to tell the serial numbers; changes are you'll get a 1951 as it seems to be the year when the vast majority of IIIf's were made. The relevant numbers are roughly 540000 to about 600000.
Have we convinced you yet?
KEH has some black dials and red dials right now, decent prices; stick to the ones that are working.... It's weird they'd rate a camera EX and charge like $300 for it and say in the text "shutter inoperative". However, you can feel good going for their "BGN" stuff; it often looks great. You can call them and get them to tell the serial numbers; changes are you'll get a 1951 as it seems to be the year when the vast majority of IIIf's were made. The relevant numbers are roughly 540000 to about 600000.
Have we convinced you yet?
sanmich
Veteran
Barnacks are great little cameras.
a good IIIf is a good tool with a smallish 50mm.
at the end, I have to agree that M's are far more practical, but Barnacks can be fun and sometimes, when size do matter, beat an M.
my remarks about Barnacks in use:
The ones with the close RF/VF are easier to use.
A new beamsplitter can make the RF as easy to use as the M.
Precutting and Loading can be a pain, but is manageable.
the reason I won't use them for serious work is the framing:
For some reason, the later ones seem to have frame spacement problems. sometimes frames are stuck or overlapping. Also, the frame window is larger than what you are used to. that means more frame-position related issues. Next framing issue: with wides, the frame gets even bigger, so even more spacing issues, more difficulties to cut your film etc.
For some reason my 1933 III don't have frame spacing problems (the winding mechanism is different and has no slack - rougher to advance but apparently more precise). Problem is: with the III, the standard film cassette is sitting to low in the camera, and I get the sprockets in the frame.
Also, the frames in the III are better spaced, and less difficult to cut.
At the end, I planned the use a IIIf with a color skopar 28mm and external finder. It's a match made in heaven. much more compact than my M2, and with the need to use an external finder anyway, just as easy to use. The problem is, again, framing.
Paul, my advice: it's not an M9... getting a camera of your year of birth is nice, and these are fun little cameras, and great machines. Treat yourself with a clean IIIf. You shouldn't loose much if you decide to resell.
Take care
a good IIIf is a good tool with a smallish 50mm.
at the end, I have to agree that M's are far more practical, but Barnacks can be fun and sometimes, when size do matter, beat an M.
my remarks about Barnacks in use:
The ones with the close RF/VF are easier to use.
A new beamsplitter can make the RF as easy to use as the M.
Precutting and Loading can be a pain, but is manageable.
the reason I won't use them for serious work is the framing:
For some reason, the later ones seem to have frame spacement problems. sometimes frames are stuck or overlapping. Also, the frame window is larger than what you are used to. that means more frame-position related issues. Next framing issue: with wides, the frame gets even bigger, so even more spacing issues, more difficulties to cut your film etc.
For some reason my 1933 III don't have frame spacing problems (the winding mechanism is different and has no slack - rougher to advance but apparently more precise). Problem is: with the III, the standard film cassette is sitting to low in the camera, and I get the sprockets in the frame.
Also, the frames in the III are better spaced, and less difficult to cut.
At the end, I planned the use a IIIf with a color skopar 28mm and external finder. It's a match made in heaven. much more compact than my M2, and with the need to use an external finder anyway, just as easy to use. The problem is, again, framing.
Paul, my advice: it's not an M9... getting a camera of your year of birth is nice, and these are fun little cameras, and great machines. Treat yourself with a clean IIIf. You shouldn't loose much if you decide to resell.
Take care
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HuubL
hunter-gatherer
As for practicality, M2s ar not much easier than Barnacks, but we don't shoot auto-everything digis all day for fun, do we?
sparrow6224
Well-known
If you end up buying witha lens: avoid Summar. Summitar excellent however. I've never used an Elmar but they sure look cool; especially the nickel. And of course collapsible Summicron is unimpeachable.
MISH
Well-known
how much does a new beamsplitter cost?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
From memory when I had a lllf CLA'd by Youxin Ye fitting a new beam splitter only added about forty dollars to the bill ... it may have even been less, the camera was a treat to focus after it was done.
paulfish4570
Veteran
thanks for all the encouragement. what dfo you reckon i could a nice shooter for? i'd figure in the cost of a CLE, maybe new curtains. and i already have the lens i'd use: cv 50/2.8 cs ...
sanmich
Veteran
Paul,
I would ask Youxin how much is a CLA, and the additional costs for new curtains and beamsplitter.
If you have a way to get the info about the S/N, I would buy two or three of the IIIf's of KEH, including the nice one that is inoperative, try to figure what would be the best combo of look and final price (buying + CLA), and return the others.
The CS 50 should be a great combo on the camera...