I think my m2 has a light leak....sample photos provided...advice please

[Leica All Day]

I just got back some photos from a recent weekend vacation and my girlfriend noticed something that was on some of the photos....After looking at the photos, I think my m2 has a light leak....I included some photos below to show you guys, but the strange thing is, the leak (light spot) is not on all my photos, only SOME.....two of the photos were shot right after each other (the ones where she is holding the hasselblad) and I can see a faint white spot on one of them....and a bright spot on the other

I want to do a test tomorrow to see what's up....can you guys/gals recommend a good test that I can do...I have some ideas on what to do, but it would be nice to hear from some more experienced photographers...

I am leaving to Myanmar in 3 weeks to do a project and I was debating on whether to bring my m2 or m3 as a back up for my m6....well, now I know which ones going to come with me......I am pretty sure that I will be sending my m2 in for a repair (Youxin did an excellent CLA on it 8 months ago), but I was thinking about maybe somewhere more local? Hong Kong? Bangkok?.....anyways, any advice would be appreciated....thanks in advance, michael

 

[Leica All Day]

some more.....

cheers, michael

 

[Jim Edmond]

Looks like a pinhole in the shutter curtain to me. Shine a flashlight on one side and inspect it from the other. Remember that the image is upside down in the camera, so it would be toward the bottom of the curtain.

 

[Leica All Day]

ok, last one...

cheers, michael

.

 

[Ljós]

Hi Michael,

no sound advice from me, as I am a M2 novice, but giving this a bump. It is interesting that the light spot appears to be in the same position in each of the frames - most easily seen in the one of your girlfriend, where it shows a little above and between her eyebrows. Hope someone with more experience can diagnose this from afar.
Greetings,
Hannes

 

[Ljós]

Pinhole

Pinhole

Gee, I think Jim Edmond's right. It shows that I still think in terms of SLR 🙂. A pinhole would explain the shape and the recurring location of the spot.
Greetings, Hannes

 

[hans voralberg]

I think it's a pin hole Michael. I think the closest to you would be Hongkong, contact Dingo or Meven they should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[payasam]

Same place in all examples, therefore hole in curtain. I have recent experience. Same model camera, same source.

 

[Leica All Day]

Thanks everybody for the replies....I just checked the shutter curtains with a flash light and could not see anything strange (no light coming through)...I am almost positive that there is a pinhole in my curtain that is causing this problem...I do not have a lens cap with me to cap the lens, but I do have a body cap for the camera.....my question is, I want to shoot a couple of test shots now on a roll of film and drop it off for one-hour developing....what would be a good way to do some test shots...should I shoot some bright light photos or should I shoot some low light photos......and what about shutter speeds.....

I am asking because I am little confused by the railroad photos....one has a big light leak and the other photo...well, I am not so sure if there is any "leakage" ......I plan on shooting a photo and then taking then lens off for a 20 seconds and then putting the lens back on.....I am thinking that the hole is so small that when I change lenses that is when a lot of light comes in.....not sure if that makes sense or not......well, what tests would you do if you were me...thanks again.....

 

[Turtle]

Verdict so far makes sense: pinhole!

 

[payasam]

Load the camera, expose its throat (no lens) to bright light -- sky or even sunlight -- for c.30 seconds while moving it about (twisting and turning). Once with the shutter cocked, once without, one completely blank frame between. When I did this without keeping a written record, I forgot which was which: but you are not old and you may not be daft.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Oh-oh! Someone left their camera lying face-up, in bright sunlight, with the lens focused to infinity!

 

[Jim Edmond]

Exposure time certainly affects what you see from a pinhole. That's why sometimes the light spot is small and others are larger. You might not see it at all with several rapid exposures. Capping the lens immediately and shooting at small apertures may work until you can get repair. I wouldn't advise removing the lens unless in a dark place.

 

[Mephiloco]

Definitely a pinhole. It might be hard for you to see the light coming through with a flash light if you've not seen a leak of this sort before. The hole will usually be very very tiny, and when you do shine light through at the right angle it'll just be a bright speck. As suggested, You should do tests with it cocked, and with it not cocked so that you can determine which curtain has the hole. Once you figure out which curtain, you can easily figure where the hole should be on the curtain. It should be on the bottom, slightly off center, to the left.

If you're going on a trip in a few weeks and plan on having the curtain replaced (or even if not) there are several DIY fixes that people use and have had good results with. I have an M2 myself which I bought with 3 curtain holes (a couple of them somewhat large) which were poorly patched (with ELECTRICAL TAPE), which is why I got the camera cheaply. I was able to repatch the holes and have a working M2 almost immediately.

The curtain will look ugly, but it's better than having an unusable camera. I'll ultimately have my curtain replaced, but I'm waiting until I need a CLA so I can have it all done at once. Don (DAG) quoted me an extra $80 to replace the curtain when done at the time of a CLA.

Anyways, some people use liquid electrical tape, black fabric paint, rubber cement (needs to be colored with sharpie afterwards, as rubber cement dries translucent and could still cause leaks), and some people simply dab sharpie over the tiny hole in several coats (let it dry, do another coat, dry, another, etc).

I personally used sharpie on 2/3 of my holes. I took the little pieces of electrical tape off to reveal somewhat larger holes, one of them I had to use a dab of rubber cement (apparently not the method of choice, I've had no problems) to bridge the hole, then dabbed the dried cement with sharpie. The other hole was fine with just sharpie, and the one remaining hole (which still has electrical tape over it from the previous owner) has started leaking again; later today I'm going to try to remove the last piece of tape and repair it the same as I did the other holes.

Anyways, Leica USA charges about $500 for the repair, DAG it will be around $250 IIRC (with a CLA), Sherry Krauter quoted me something around $400 for a bad curtain on a m5.


One other solution is that once you figure out which curtain has the hole, you can adjust your shooting style to minimize the light leak. For example, if the hole is in the first curtain you can simply always leave the camera cocked so that the good curtain is over the film, and not leaking. If it's the second curtain, don't cock until the last moment before you take a picture.

 

[Mephiloco]

Update: I remembered incorrectly. My M2 came to me with 6 (SIX) holes, with tiny pieces of electrical tape attempting to cover them. Up until today 3 holes still had tiny pieces of tape. I had previously removed the other pieces, and removed another today. 2 pieces remain simply because they're on the curtain pretty well, and in removing the piece today it took a piece of the curtain, making the hole big enough to put a watch pin through (or the tip of a toothpick). Luckily, while looking for my rubber cement I found a bottle of black artist's pigment acrylic paint (in pure black, #479). Painted over it and it's perfect. Dried in a few minutes. Clicked through about 200 frames at 1000 and it's holding strong. Dries a better color black than the sharpie as well, matches the color of the curtain.

Hope one of these posts helps. Others have done similar things (older threads on RFF) and have commented that after 3 years the acrylic paint is still going strong. Similar posts from photo.net/apug/etc.

Anyways, just in time for me to take it out drinking tonight.

 

[Leica All Day]

Hey thanks a lot for the replies, I appreciate it.....I did a test on it yesterday, the one that Payasam(post 14) mentioned and I could not see any light leakage in my photos ( i think I screwed up the test)....not so sure why, but I am going outside soon and I am going to do some more tests and drop the roll off for one hour developing....I know that it is a light leak (99% sure), but I want to find out on what curtain it is on....

as far as repairing it myself goes, I think I would go ahead and try it, if I needed to....but fortunately, I have an m3 that I am going to bring with me to Myanmar to back up my m6....so I am going to send my m2 to Youxin for a repair....I already contacted him about it and he is hooking me up with a cool discount on the repair...so I am going to send it to him......

I appreciate all the helpful information posted above and i hope that it can help others out if they find themselves with a leak in their curtain and decide to repair it themselves....I have found myself before in India (Calcutta) with a broken shutter ribbon on my m6 and no back up body, and at that time, I would of done anything to have it fixed (DIY repair)....fortunately, someone on pnet informed me about a guy in Bombay (32 hours by train away) that fixes Leicas.

cheers, michael

 

[Leica All Day]

ok, I just got back from the lab and out of 36 photos, I can only see the leak on 3 or 4 of the photos.....not really sure why, but it is there and I think it is on the second curtain...anyways, I am going to send it to Youxin tomorrow and get it repaired....oh well, life goes on.....

I shot these photos earlier today in my neighborhood around 1:30 p.m...the light was very bad.....

cheers, michael

 

[ZorkiKat]

ok, I just got back from the lab and out of 36 photos, I can only see the leak on 3 or 4 of the photos.....not really sure why, but it is there and I think it is on the second curtain...anyways, I am going to send it to Youxin tomorrow and get it repaired....oh well, life goes on.....

I shot these photos earlier today in my neighborhood around 1:30 p.m...the light was very bad.....



cheers, michael

View attachment 73571View attachment 73572

Perhaps the hole is more of a crack than a little hole. That's why light may or may not seep through it, depending on certain conditions. Or in those instances, the defective blind may be over the film for longer times than in the others where no mark appeared- ie, shutter in either cocked or uncocked states.

Look for black fabric paint in Bangkok. I'm sure its as readily available there as it is here in Manila. I've used this material to patch little holes in many M-Leicas already, mostly M3, some M4. And the repair works very well, aside from the nice fact that it won't cost you $250. I've described the repair method elsewhere in the forum before, but I decided to delete it for irrelevance. 😎 But I feel that you may find it useful, and would be relevant here:

Get black fabric paint. These would be the type used for silk screen printing. A small bottle will do a lot of holes. You'll also need some cotton swabs/Q-tips, and some toothpicks. Get the round bamboo types with sharp edges. Whittle one end to make a little chisel point.

First, look for the hole. This is easy. Hold the camera in front of a bright light source (100 watt lamp in a darkened room), no lens and back flap up or removed. It's better to observe the shutter from the lens mount side.
Do this with the shutter fired and cocked, to see which shutter blind the crack is on. This checkup may also reveal the presence of other holes and cracks, if any.

A more radical method is to fire a flash on the film side whilst looking through the lens mount. The flash burst will reveal every little place where light can go though. But make sure that the flash is more than 10 cm away, the burst can be hot enough to cook the rubber coating. The flash will be very quick so you'll have to remember where the holes are, as manifested by little twinkly star like patterns on the cloth.

Once you know where the hole/crack is, get a bit of black paint, using the chisel point bamboo toothpick. Do this like you were spreading butter on toast. Dab paint on the hole. Usually, black textile paint is opaque enough and one layer is light tight enough. Quickly follow with a light dab with a Qtip, to flatten the paint and take out any excess. Then check the hole again over a bright light source to see if it's been properly covered.

The paint should be dry in 15-30 minutes, and you should be able to fire the shutter after an hour.

 

[kitaanat]

I've got a light leak too but with my Ricoh 500GX.
When I shoot continuously there is no problem
but the light leak will be seen in the picture
if I stop taking picture for 2 or more days.


sample shot below:

michaelbialecki, I've just noticed that you are currently in Bangkok
You may interested to join M9 launch at TCDC
on Sep 29, 2009.

 

[Leica All Day]

Thanks ZorkiKat for the excellent info, I am going to try that flash thing later tonight and see if I can see the hole or crack in the shutter......very informative post

Hey Kitaanat, I am interested in the m9 launch, can you send me pm and let me know the details....thanks, michael