Luddite Frank
Well-known
So, on a trip to Germany about 20 years ago, I picked-up a small view camera: a late 1920's Zeiss-Ikon "Donata" plate camera, in the original box, with three film holders.
The camera is in very good condition, and I have always wanted to shoot with it.
Here's my big stumbling block: what to use for film ? The three holders I have are for 9 x 12 cm glass plates...
Does anyone know if there were ever sheet film holders for these cameras ?
If so, will I be cutting-down 4x5 film to put in them ?
Or should I just put it back on the shelf and let it look pretty ?
Thoughts ?
Luddite Frank
The camera is in very good condition, and I have always wanted to shoot with it.
Here's my big stumbling block: what to use for film ? The three holders I have are for 9 x 12 cm glass plates...
Does anyone know if there were ever sheet film holders for these cameras ?
If so, will I be cutting-down 4x5 film to put in them ?
Or should I just put it back on the shelf and let it look pretty ?
Thoughts ?
Luddite Frank
Finder
Veteran
You may be able to load film into the plate holders. You are going to have to find something to go behind the film to give it thickness and you will need to check the film stays flat. You will need to trim the 4x5 film as well. But you are far from nuts.
Finder
Veteran
You could also find some old plates and recoat them with a liquid emulsion. What you use for an anit-halation backing, I am not sure, but the results may be fun.
nodyad
Member
Your 9x12 cm Donato is equivalent to the Kodak Recomar 33 camera. Both took the same Zeiss-style single-flange plateholders--these are completely usable on either camera. The Kodak Recomar-branded holders often come with film adapters, either as inserts or integrated into the holder. I was able to find some of these by patient watching on eBay.
I just did a search and found Adox 9x12 at PhotoImpex and Efke 9x12 (currently out of stock) at Freestyle. You'll have more emulsion options if you trim down a more popular size such as 4x5.
This study is from a 9x12 Zeiss Donato with a 135mm Tessar lens, taken as I recall on Ilford Delta 100 film, trimmed down from 4x5, using a Recomar holder with the built-in flip-up film positioner:
I just did a search and found Adox 9x12 at PhotoImpex and Efke 9x12 (currently out of stock) at Freestyle. You'll have more emulsion options if you trim down a more popular size such as 4x5.
This study is from a 9x12 Zeiss Donato with a 135mm Tessar lens, taken as I recall on Ilford Delta 100 film, trimmed down from 4x5, using a Recomar holder with the built-in flip-up film positioner:
Luddite Frank
Well-known
Don & Finder;
Thanks for your replies...
Don - love your Avatar photo--- is the camera an AKA ?
Will start looking for the Recomar stuff...
Does anyone know if there were roll-film backs to fit the Zeiss / Recomar 9 x 12 ?
Happy Turkey Day !
Luddite Frank
Thanks for your replies...
Don - love your Avatar photo--- is the camera an AKA ?
Will start looking for the Recomar stuff...
Does anyone know if there were roll-film backs to fit the Zeiss / Recomar 9 x 12 ?
Happy Turkey Day !
Luddite Frank
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
This is an interesting thread, much more so than the one with the guy bragging about abandoning film to digital 
Thanks for the education guys. I have yet stepped up to LF from MF.
Don, that "study" is awesome. I like your avatar also, I don't know what an AKA is, but it looks like an Argus?
Thanks for the education guys. I have yet stepped up to LF from MF.
Don, that "study" is awesome. I like your avatar also, I don't know what an AKA is, but it looks like an Argus?
Finder
Veteran
Don, do you know how to remove the front or back element from the shutter to the Anstigmatic lens on the Recomar so I can clean the lens? I have tried unscrewing them, but they seem to be locked somehow. Perhaps more force...
venchka
Veteran
I would say "Go for it!" You may also find additional help at the Large Format Forum. There are folks over there using equipment far older. Yes, they are "nuts" but having great fun too.
Luddite Frank
Well-known
So, while I'm awaiting recomar holders to show-up on eBay, since i have three Z-I plate holders, w/ plates, for this camera, could I get away with using the glass plates as the "septum", and just slip the 9x12 film on top of the glass, under the clips that hold the glass ?
LF
LF
nodyad
Member
You may absolutely do just that, Frank! If you find a problem with the film lifting up in the center (since it will be held only by the two ends), you might need a tiny bit of double-sided tape in the center to keep it from arching out. There is also a glue-stick that has "post-it note"-type adhesive that you could apply to the center of the plate that would do the job nicely too.
Finder: I don't know about the Recomar lens--my camera is the Donato with a Tessar in a Compur shutter. The back cell has slots for a spanner wrench, and after popping the friction loose, it unscrews quite easily from the shutter. The Anastigmat should be similar. You will have more room to work if you remove the shutter/lens by loosening the big lug nut on the outside of the rear cell. I recommend finding a spanner wrench if at all possible, as any kind of pliers will mar that nice blackened brass cell noticeably. Auto parts stores might have one, if there is not a decent photo store nearby. A kitchen rubber lid opening pad is handy to have in your camera toolkit for getting a better grip on things.
shadowfox/Frank: the avatar is me with my first 35mm camera around 1967, a Canon that had an f/3.5 Elmar, as I recall (and seems evident in the photo). I traded it pretty quickly for the Canon bodies that I have to this day. What was an AKA, besides "Also known as?" ;-)
Hostas are interesting to photograph because the variegation in the leaves becomes more pronounced in B&W. It is probably because film picks up on other colors besides green that come from some of those regions--they look lighter to film. Anyway, it's always a delight to see what comes out, and to try to retain the delicate highlights of the flowers. This is not a camera for impatient subjects!
Finder: I don't know about the Recomar lens--my camera is the Donato with a Tessar in a Compur shutter. The back cell has slots for a spanner wrench, and after popping the friction loose, it unscrews quite easily from the shutter. The Anastigmat should be similar. You will have more room to work if you remove the shutter/lens by loosening the big lug nut on the outside of the rear cell. I recommend finding a spanner wrench if at all possible, as any kind of pliers will mar that nice blackened brass cell noticeably. Auto parts stores might have one, if there is not a decent photo store nearby. A kitchen rubber lid opening pad is handy to have in your camera toolkit for getting a better grip on things.
shadowfox/Frank: the avatar is me with my first 35mm camera around 1967, a Canon that had an f/3.5 Elmar, as I recall (and seems evident in the photo). I traded it pretty quickly for the Canon bodies that I have to this day. What was an AKA, besides "Also known as?" ;-)
Hostas are interesting to photograph because the variegation in the leaves becomes more pronounced in B&W. It is probably because film picks up on other colors besides green that come from some of those regions--they look lighter to film. Anyway, it's always a delight to see what comes out, and to try to retain the delicate highlights of the flowers. This is not a camera for impatient subjects!
Luddite Frank
Well-known
Don,
Thanks for the further input !
I didn't recognize your camera in the avatar as a Canon... it looks a lot like a little German fixed-lens camera that I have: AKA Rex. My 'Rex has a non-coupled RF, and a little "Westar" lens (ISCO-Gottigen), 45mm / f-3.5.
It is fairly similar to a V-lander Vito-B. A buddy has a step-up version with interchangeable lenses ... Don't know what AKA stands for as far as this company goes...
( I just figured-out why your avatar camera doesn't look like a Canon/leica - you shot that photo using a mirror, thus the camera is "backwards" ? )
RE: Patient subjects... yes. My first large format outingwas about a year ago, with my Calumet 4x5 mono-rail; i was hoping to shoot fall foliage with some Kodak Portra color, but I also had some Ilford b&w with me.
By the time I got out to the mountains, I discovered that the leaves were already down, so I turned the camera on the "Tunkhannock Viaduct" of the Delaware & Lackawanna RR (largest concrete arch bridge in the world- it's very patient !).
It took my about 1/2 hour to set-up the camera, focus, set all the movements, load film, wait for the clouds/sun to co-operate, then expose two shots (b&w). It was a breezy day and my tripod was too light for this kind of duty (camera shake from wind), so I gave-up on the 4x5 for that day and we hit some antique shops instead.
The kicker was, when I dropped the two film-holders off at the local lab for processing; when I went back for them, they told me they were unable to print them... I pressed for details, and we looked at both negs... no image on one (just clear backing), and a very faint image on the other. I talked-through the process with the tech, about the day, the light, exposure (Weston Master III), reciprocity (didn't have the lens that far away from the film), etc.
We finally concluded that I had loaded the film sheets into the holders with the emulsion AWAY from the lens... :bang:
There's supposed to be a Santa Claus steam excursion next Saturday, so I'm going to load my holders PROPERLY , and have another go with the 4 x 5.
It should be cold, and steam always looks better in the cold weather...
LF
Thanks for the further input !
I didn't recognize your camera in the avatar as a Canon... it looks a lot like a little German fixed-lens camera that I have: AKA Rex. My 'Rex has a non-coupled RF, and a little "Westar" lens (ISCO-Gottigen), 45mm / f-3.5.
It is fairly similar to a V-lander Vito-B. A buddy has a step-up version with interchangeable lenses ... Don't know what AKA stands for as far as this company goes...
( I just figured-out why your avatar camera doesn't look like a Canon/leica - you shot that photo using a mirror, thus the camera is "backwards" ? )
RE: Patient subjects... yes. My first large format outingwas about a year ago, with my Calumet 4x5 mono-rail; i was hoping to shoot fall foliage with some Kodak Portra color, but I also had some Ilford b&w with me.
By the time I got out to the mountains, I discovered that the leaves were already down, so I turned the camera on the "Tunkhannock Viaduct" of the Delaware & Lackawanna RR (largest concrete arch bridge in the world- it's very patient !).
It took my about 1/2 hour to set-up the camera, focus, set all the movements, load film, wait for the clouds/sun to co-operate, then expose two shots (b&w). It was a breezy day and my tripod was too light for this kind of duty (camera shake from wind), so I gave-up on the 4x5 for that day and we hit some antique shops instead.
The kicker was, when I dropped the two film-holders off at the local lab for processing; when I went back for them, they told me they were unable to print them... I pressed for details, and we looked at both negs... no image on one (just clear backing), and a very faint image on the other. I talked-through the process with the tech, about the day, the light, exposure (Weston Master III), reciprocity (didn't have the lens that far away from the film), etc.
We finally concluded that I had loaded the film sheets into the holders with the emulsion AWAY from the lens...
:bang: There's supposed to be a Santa Claus steam excursion next Saturday, so I'm going to load my holders PROPERLY
, and have another go with the 4 x 5.It should be cold, and steam always looks better in the cold weather...
LF