jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, I'm glad I don't have the pain of owning one, considering S/H prices versus the price of a new one.
That is what I thought when I was only able to get 40% of the new price of my M6TTL a few years ago...
How much did you lose on your car when you drove it out of the showroom?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
This is a great thread! It collects all the bashers in one bucket!:angel:
gdi
Veteran
That is what I thought when I was only able to get 40% of the new price of my M6TTL a few years ago...
How much did you lose on your car when you drove it out of the showroom?
If you look at resale values of a Canon and Leica of similar vintage and general price range - the M8 and the 1DMkIII - the M8 has held its own. Below are some numbers based on KEH offers to buy for a mint example of each (this provides a reasonable relative value, I believe):
1D MKIII - Orig $4000, KEH Offer (Mint) $1238, approx. months available 35
M8 - Orig $4800, KEH offer (Mint) $1530, approx months available 43
Depreciation:
Canon: 60% or 2%/month ($79)
Leica: 72% or 1.9%/month ($76)
So the difference in these two cameras is negligible. (But note that KEH is offering $300 more for a silver M8 vs black.) Of course if I had picked a different Canon, the results could be different. But in this comparison of the high end 1.3 crop offerings - the Leica can't be called a bad value.
gliderbee
Well-known
That's true for cars and for cameras, and I don't think the M8 is worse then any other camera in that respect, probably on the contrary..
Anyway, thanks to the TLC Leica owners usually have for their gear, I was able to buy S/H for a very reasonable price in pristine condition
I was under the impression Leitz lenses hold their value better then others, or am I mistaken ?
Stefan.
Anyway, thanks to the TLC Leica owners usually have for their gear, I was able to buy S/H for a very reasonable price in pristine condition
I was under the impression Leitz lenses hold their value better then others, or am I mistaken ?
Stefan.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Here I was under the impression that Leica digital Ms would not depreciate as other supposed lesser makes of digital cameras have. I guess they are just a camera after all and not an investment or the holy grail of digital cameras either. Being first in it's class would have made no difference.
Bob
gdi
Veteran
That's true for cars and for cameras, and I don't think the M8 is worse then any other camera in that respect, probably on the contrary..
Anyway, thanks to the TLC Leica owners usually have for their gear, I was able to buy S/H for a very reasonable price in pristine condition
I was under the impression Leitz lenses hold their value better then others, or am I mistaken ?
Stefan.
That's true! I have never seen a beat up M8, but plenty of banged up 1Ds! I think the lenses of any manufacturer hold their value very well.
gdi
Veteran
Yes, it has been obvious to me since it was introduced that it is just a camera. However, it is one with a magic sensor, un-equaled sharpness, no NR smearing, better than 4x5 capabilities and self-healing when broken! :angel:
cidereye
Film Freak
But if your worry is depreciation never buy any camera to begin with that you plan on actually using or buy a Leica special edition and leave it in a box in a cupboard, no?
I sold my Nikon D200 for the same money I'd paid for it 2 years previously, did I expect that when I bought it? Certainly not! Did I worry about resale value at the time either? Nope! Was it a nice bonus? Yes.
Buy it, use it. Simple as. If you make good money on it when you want rid then surely that is just a nice bonus at the time - nothing more, nothing less.
I sold my Nikon D200 for the same money I'd paid for it 2 years previously, did I expect that when I bought it? Certainly not! Did I worry about resale value at the time either? Nope! Was it a nice bonus? Yes.
Buy it, use it. Simple as. If you make good money on it when you want rid then surely that is just a nice bonus at the time - nothing more, nothing less.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, the benefit may come later - I guess M8 prices are pretty well stabilized by now, whereas Canon will slip more. As a comparison, Digilux 2 prices have been stable for a few years now at the 750$ point and even creeping up a bit as far as I can see, but the identical Panasonic is hard put to reach the 500 $ barrier.
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gliderbee
Well-known
cidereye
Film Freak
Hahaha, yes of course S/H. I get your point.Surely you bought it S/H then ? If not, I'll sell my D200 tomorrow
Stefan.
kevin m
Veteran
When I shot with film M's I had no trouble working with their limitations but, for me, the M8 added a couple more limitations that made the camera too frustrating to use in a fast-paced shooting environment. The files were fine, it was the clumsy menus, awkward interface and silly UV filters that nixed it for me.
I like the 5D sensor for its 'flaws,' too, oddly enough. The plastic smoothness some people don't like is exactly why I do like it for low-light work. Funny how 'flaws' can make a piece of gear more lovable.
So now this is just another M8 bashing thread.
Well, I am highly qualified to put some perspective on the original question.
I have used some of the first Digital Cameras ever made. Working at a research lab, we made our own 30 years ago. Played with a Kodak DCS100 at a show twenty years ago, did not like it. Waited for the DCS200 to come out, and had one custom made for Infrared- at an extra cost of $4,000. It was the first Digital Infrared camera offered in the Kodak Line-Up.
After 30 years of using Digital Cameras, the M8 is the most fun to use. Not perfect, but handles more like a "classic film camera" than anything else that I have used. The 20-pound attachment for the Nikon F3HP that converted it to a DCS100 was a little cumbersome. The Disk wake-up time of the DCS200, about 5 seconds per shot, slowed it a bit compared with an N8008s shooting film.
Well, I am highly qualified to put some perspective on the original question.
I have used some of the first Digital Cameras ever made. Working at a research lab, we made our own 30 years ago. Played with a Kodak DCS100 at a show twenty years ago, did not like it. Waited for the DCS200 to come out, and had one custom made for Infrared- at an extra cost of $4,000. It was the first Digital Infrared camera offered in the Kodak Line-Up.
After 30 years of using Digital Cameras, the M8 is the most fun to use. Not perfect, but handles more like a "classic film camera" than anything else that I have used. The 20-pound attachment for the Nikon F3HP that converted it to a DCS100 was a little cumbersome. The Disk wake-up time of the DCS200, about 5 seconds per shot, slowed it a bit compared with an N8008s shooting film.
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kevin m
Veteran
Only if you're of the opinion that "disagreement" somehow equals "bashing."
back alley
IMAGES
i think it depends on 'how' one disagrees.
kevin m
Veteran
Point taken. I apologize for using the term "toy." I picked that too hastily.
To (hopefully) clarify, the M8 is a wonderful camera - one I wish I could afford to have for my own pleasure - but the fact that it has additional limitations over and above the film M's makes it, IMO, that much less practical to use as your only digital camera, especially in a fast-paced shooting environment.
If the M8 had been the world's "first" digital camera, this would have still been evident as soon as the world's "second" digital camera hit the stage.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Yes, it may well come later or not. We will just have to wait and see. The only point I had was that initially some people thought that the M8 would be depreciation proof, being a Leica, which has since proven false. I do not worry about depreciation but just accept it as the price of using any tool. Personally I don't think anything that has been said pro or con about the M8 would have been different had it been the first of it's kind.
Bob
The DCS200 WAS the second generation Digital SLR camera to hit the stage. Mine is almost 18 years old now. The $19,000 that I spent on it would buy an M9 with the F0.95 Noctilux.
2.5x Crop factor.
How about a 1997 1.3MPIXEL Nikon DSLR? Big, but used reduction optics to get rid of the crop factor.
The M8 is far superior. I understand that many of you were not early adopters of digital, and do not know the history- let alone to have actually used them in the 1980s and early 1990s. The M8, for its size, weight, and even flaws- is a major achievement. The Infrared problem was in all of the first generation DSLR's, and is why you can find 20 year old "Hot Mirror" filters on Ebay. I've been paying $5 and $10 for mine. The M9 amazes me.
Again- if the M8 Had been the world's first Digital Camera, we would have thought it had come from the future. Technology of the day could not have created it.
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Your response to Roger was unnecessary and rude. So yes, Bashing is the term for I use for nasty and rude behavior. Disagreement does not have to be nasty and rude. State your case, use facts as you understand them. Others may accept or reject your facts. That is a disagreement.
I'm glad we could have this little off-topic discussion.
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kevin m
Veteran
Well, I find his habit of poisoning the well-water before anyone else can drink to be rude, too. But I suppose passive-aggression is tougher to spot than the more naked kind, particularly when one is inclined to agree with the former.
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