III f heartstopper

[zauhar]

Hi folks,

I recently bought a summitar lens, and when a saw an overhauled IIIf at a good price I couldn't resist getting that too!

I have fallen in love with the little camera, and have already run 5-6 rolls through it. Today I had an unhappy surprise.

I was shooting pretty rapidly (my kid's soccer match), and so I am not 100% sure what happened. It felt like the film advance suddenly "lost traction" and would not advance the film. I turned it at least six or seven times and it finally "grabbed" and advanced the film and shutter. I am not certain, but I think the alignment of the shutter speed is now slightly off of where it was before - below is an image of the camera with shutter cocked and set to 1/100.

Any idea of what might have happened? I have continued shooting with it today and it feels OK.

Thanks!

Randy

 

[agour]

Im not sure why it lost traction, but if the dial is slightly out you might be able to reset it. If there is grub screws around the outer edge, just undo them a bit, turn the dial until it is correct and then tighten them back up.

The slipping could be a gear thats been ground down over the years, but that should have been spotted by the technician (presuming it had a half decent overhaul).

 

[charjohncarter]

Like above I don't know what happened but if the ratchet wheel has slipped out of the film hole then a slip. After a similar slip with my IIIf, I'm very careful to be sure that the teeth show well through the film.

I read someplace that Leica resisted the swing back, probably for many reasons, but the most important was because the Barnack was superior in holding the film flat against the film plate. I can image this was and still is very important with 35mm. Sometimes I think that my cheaper 35mm RFs aren't very good at this.

Anyway, we have film flatness to thank for all fun we have loading a Barnack.

 

[Bingley]

One thing to look for is whether the spindle holding the take-up spool is worn out. That can cause the film not to advance when you try to wind on to a new frame. I had that problem w/ a IIIc. Replacement spindle fixed it.

 

[Vickko]

1. shutter dial alignment - is held by setscrews at the knurled dial. Loosen them, turn the dial to where you want and re-tighten them.

2. slipping film wind - is a classical Barnack issue, where the advance tab slips off the film shaft, and continues to rotate freely to the end of its travel but film isn't fully advanced. It is due to old gummy stuff on the two faces of the tab and shaft, preventing the two from mating fully (i.e partial mating leads to slipping off). Any IIIf is an old camera, and likely deserves cleaning. This also used to happen to my IIIg cameras too.

Vick

 

[zauhar]

Like above I don't know what happened but if the ratchet wheel has slipped out of the film hole then a slip. After a similar slip with my IIIf, I'm very careful to be sure that the teeth show well through the film.

I read someplace that Leica resisted the swing back, probably for many reasons, but the most important was because the Barnack was superior in holding the film flat against the film plate. I can image this was and still is very important with 35mm. Sometimes I think that my cheaper 35mm RFs aren't very good at this.

Anyway, we have film flatness to thank for all fun we have loading a Barnack.

Being new to the camera I am a little paranoid, and in fact I held the camera at an angle so that I could see the teeth engaging the film after loading, and even watched while I advanced a little to be certain the sprockets were in the holes. I also know that you can mess up the shutter on these if you accidentally move the shutter speed before advancing the film, so have been very careful about that as well.

One thing I might have done - it is possible that while turning the advance the joint of my thumb pressed on the shutter release. I suspect that could cause something "funny" to happen.

Agour, there does not seem to be any screws visible, maybe they can be seen when you lift the shutter dial up (but I do not see any).

Thanks!

Randy

 

[zauhar]

1. shutter dial alignment - is held by setscrews at the knurled dial. Loosen them, turn the dial to where you want and re-tighten them.

2. slipping film wind - is a classical Barnack issue, where the advance tab slips off the film shaft, and continues to rotate freely to the end of its travel but film isn't fully advanced. It is due to old gummy stuff on the two faces of the tab and shaft, preventing the two from mating fully (i.e partial mating leads to slipping off). Any IIIf is an old camera, and likely deserves cleaning. This also used to happen to my IIIg cameras too.

Vick

Vick, there are two holes in the knurled dial, but I don't see any screws behind them, even as I rotate the dial around. Is there a particular speed I need to select to see the screws?

Regarding the second issue, the camera was supposed to have been CLAed prior to sale (I bought it from Youxin).

Thanks!

Randy

 

[batterytypehah!]

There are three screws but they're deeply recessed and you do need to lift the dial. Just back them off a little; you don't want the dial to come off if it doesn't need to. It's a royal pain in the a55 to get back on.

 

[zauhar]

There are three screws but they're deeply recessed and you do need to lift the dial. Just back them off a little; you don't want the dial to come off if it doesn't need to. It's a royal pain in the a55 to get back on.

Ah, thanks - probably I need better light to see them.

I am not sure I have a screwdriver thin enough to get through that hole ...

Randy

 

[Vickko]

I just checked my IIIf. Three screws on the edges of the shutter dial, not recessed. Maybe best to set the speed to 1/1000 since it sits up higher and gives you better access to the screws.

Oh, yes, if you touch the film rewind lever during winding, it will disengage the wind. But, no big deal, keep winding (but push the lever back in place).

.....Vick

 

[batterytypehah!]

Sorry, but they are recessed. 3mm in from the circumference, if you need to know. And yes, I am sitting here with a IIIf and a caliper. Geez.

 

[VictorM.]

The film advance can "lose traction" if the rewind lever is moved slightly off the advance setting.

 

[dave lackey]

Randy,
Give Youxin a call or email, and I am sure he will respond quickly.

Keep us updated and good luck.:angel:

 

[colyn]

Release the shutter then pull up on the speed dial and turn slightly so it does not drop back down. You should then see 3 grub screws.

If you have a screwdriver small enough advance the shutter and set to B and raise the dial again turning slightly so it does not drop back down, loosen the screws and drop the dial back down and turn till B lines up with the mark then raise and tighten the screws.

As for the slippage..did you have the rewind lever fully to A??

 

[n5jrn]

The screws are not recessed on my IIIf RDST (S/N 773xxx); they are approximately even with the knurling. Perhaps Leica changed the design of the shutter speed dial slightly during the IIIf's manufacturing run. Wouldn't surprise me, given how there are at least three major variants of the IIIf (BD, RD, and RDST).

If you need to purchase a screwdriver, I'll recommend the ones made by Weha. They cost a little more than your average precision screwdrivers, but they grip screws securely. Just bought one myself for a IIIf adjustment of my own.

 

[zauhar]

I just checked my IIIf. Three screws on the edges of the shutter dial, not recessed. Maybe best to set the speed to 1/1000 since it sits up higher and gives you better access to the screws.

Oh, yes, if you touch the film rewind lever during winding, it will disengage the wind. But, no big deal, keep winding (but push the lever back in place).

.....Vick

Vick, I can see what appears to be one brass screw through one of the two holes in the dial, and only when the dial is set to 1/40. The screw is behind the inner ring that the dial rides on, and is only 50% visible. Unless I am seeing something unrelated. In any event, there is no visible slot in the screw.

Here is what I am seeing, note the hole below the phrase "genetic lesions" on the paper it is resting on. There is a screw behind that hole, but no way in hell I would be able to adjust it, even if I had a small enough screwdriver.

Or am I looking at entirely the wrong thing??

Thanks!

Randy

 

[zauhar]

Release the shutter then pull up on the speed dial and turn slightly so it does not drop back down. You should then see 3 grub screws.

If you have a screwdriver small enough advance the shutter and set to B and raise the dial again turning slightly so it does not drop back down, loosen the screws and drop the dial back down and turn till B lines up with the mark then raise and tighten the screws.

As for the slippage..did you have the rewind lever fully to A??

Yes, I see the three holes, and I think I can make out the screws but they are recessed quite a bit. I would need much better light than I have at the moment. I have screwdrivers from an electronics kit that are just small enough to fit through, but I cannot even see clearly what kind of tip the screws match.

It is possible that I brushed against either the shutter release or the rewind lever while advancing.

But would either of those actions affect the alignment of the shutter dial?

OK, at this point I will finish this roll of film and then experiment with the shutter. I may need to ask Youxin for his take on the issue. Maybe all is OK and I am making too much of it.

Thanks guys!

Randy

 

[n5jrn]

Yup, definitely a different design than on mine.

Regarding the problem you had, did you tension the film by turning the rewind knob until resistance is felt, as recommended in the IIIf user's manual? If it was caused by the film slipping out of the sprockets, it seems as if excessive slack could be what caused it. I have always followed Leica's loading instructions, and have never had a problem with slippage.

I don't think you can harm the shutter of a IIIf by changing the setting before cocking, like you can with FSU rangefinders. Doing so is not recommended for screwmount Leicas simply because the shutter speed dial rotates while cocking, so if you set the speed first, the speed you get will not be one you think you're getting. That's bad, but it's not trip-to-the-repair-shop bad.

If you don't have a manual, one can be downloaded here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm

 

[zauhar]

Yup, definitely a different design than on mine.

Regarding the problem you had, did you tension the film by turning the rewind knob until resistance is felt, as recommended in the IIIf user's manual? If it was caused by the film slipping out of the sprockets, it seems as if excessive slack could be what caused it. I have always followed Leica's loading instructions, and have never had a problem with slippage.

I don't think you can harm the shutter of a IIIf by changing the setting before cocking, like you can with FSU rangefinders. Doing so is not recommended for screwmount Leicas simply because the shutter speed dial rotates while cocking, so if you set the speed first, the speed you get will not be one you think you're getting. That's bad, but it's not trip-to-the-repair-shop bad.

If you don't have a manual, one can be downloaded here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm

Thanks very much, I will take a look at the manual. I do not have it.

Yes, I took up the slack in the film. I am not trimming the film leader, I am leaving the shutter open so I can guide the film past the gate if needed. I take up the slack so that the film "straightens" behind the gate, then double check that it is engaged with the sprockets.

Randy

 

[burancap]

I don't recall all of the details, especially the sequence, but I had a very similar issue with my IIIc/f years ago.

I think I may have bumped the R lever late in a roll and it seemed to lose tension and caused an offset in the speed dial just like yours.

IIRC, I shot the rest of the roll and it cleared itself upon releasing of the spool.