IIIc, with a "flash sync plug"

[yek]

Hi! I just bought a IIIc. It is still on the way and will be my first leica, so I got some newbie questions for you. Sorry!

The IIIc, as the seller said, has a flash sync plug on the front panel. I have done a search and known that it is likely not made by leica. But the price seems not bad, so, if it doesn't harm the functioning of the camera, I think I can ignore it.

However, on the pictures, the "plug" sticks out a lot, unlike the round pc sockets I have observed on other cameras. I have seen some pictures of IIIf and its flash sync socket seems quite like a pc socket to me.

I wish to know more about the "plug". Does it work in the same way as a pc socket? Should I ask for some work on it in a CLA?

And, for curiosity, why IIIf has a "sync delay" dial? I have a yashica rangefinder which has pc socket but doesn't have any "sync delay" mechanism. I searched but didn't find an answer.

Thanks for your help!

........

 

[colyn]

The flash sync plug on your camera was installed by a non-Leitz repairman. These plugs seldom sync properly. It should however not cause any problems with normal camera function.

Have it removed at CLA

The sync delay dial on the Leica IIIf is to sync the shutter with different types of flash bulbs which were common when this model was introduced and is not found on any other camera.

 

[yek]

Thank you! It is the information I'm looking for.

 

[john neal]

Yek - I had one similar on a II body and it caused a light leak. Definitely recommend removal during CLA.

 

[yek]

Hi John, thank you for sharing your experience. I will get it removed soon after it reachs. But, isn't a hole left there after the removal? How to cover it back? The vulcanite may be changed, but is it necessary to do something to the body shell?

Thank you!

 

[colyn]

Hi John, thank you for sharing your experience. I will get it removed soon after it reachs. But, isn't a hole left there after the removal? How to cover it back? The vulcanite may be changed, but is it necessary to do something to the body shell?

Thank you!

The IIIc body shell is easy to remove. Have a machinist cut a .10 - .20 inch deep groove around the hole and place a thin piece of round brass or aluminum cut to size and glue it in.

 

[yek]

Thank you, Colyn! you are so knowledgable! It is a great idea to make a groove. I had thought the hole maybe blocked by melted tin. 😱 I will discuss with the technician on this issue. Thanks!

 

[ZorkiKat]

The plug sticks out because there's no room behind it to allow a 'sunk' pc terminal. What your camera has looks like the typical generic pc terminals which were found on the rims of leaf-shutter barrels.

Without any timing mechanism, chances are, your camera is synched at X- or electronic flash which needs no delay between closing of sync circuit and opening of shutter. The IIIf used a variable timed switch to allow flash bulbs to synch with the shutter at their brightest or peak points. Chemical flash bulbs need time to flare up to its brightest and the timing switch made the shutter open just at that time.

Now, if the sticking terminal isn't a hassle, the question is, why remove it? If it's functional, and the worse it does is just stick out, it can be a useful add-on.
It allows you to sync your IIIc with flash.

Jay

 

[peterm1]

I am lucky. I have a 111a which was obviously factory converted to include flash sync. In this case the flash sync port is on the back of the top cover in much the same position you find them on M series cameras. The camera even has the new larger shutter speed dial of the 111f and also has the surrounding collar which rotates to set the sync delay (designed for optimal syncing of flashbulbs having different ignition and burn rates.)

In this respect it is identical to 111f cameras of the 1950's. It also makes the 111a look absolutely identical to the rare and valuable "Monte en Sarre" variant that collectors pay big bucks for (but lacking the "Monte en Sarre" engraving it is just a 111a to a collector sadly). BTW these cameras were Leica originals which were assembled in France to exploit a tax loophole and avoid paying exorbitant import duties on goods imported from Germany after the war.

However , as an interesting aside, in my case the top cover must have been replaced at the same time as the camera went back into the factory. The camera has its original (pre-war) serial number but the camera's ranegfinder cover is labelled Leica DBP not Leica DRP as with prewar cameras. Interesting to see the variants that come about thru mods, offical and otherwise.

 

[yek]

Thank you for the help. I am afraid the plug sticks out too much. I will give the camera a test when it comes, by then I will know whether it is anoying. Wish I could be contributive to the forum in the future. Thanks!

 

[ZorkiKat]

However , as an interesting aside, in my case the top cover must have been replaced at the same time as the camera went back into the factory. The camera has its original (pre-war) serial number but the camera's ranegfinder cover is labelled Leica DBP not Leica DRP as with prewar cameras. Interesting to see the variants that come about thru mods, offical and otherwise.

Could your IIIa be a postwar specimen? According to the Leica Manual (Morgan & Lester XIII edition), these were made until 1950. By then they would have sported DBP instead of DRP. And with the flash conversion -with the sync dial-, your IIIa becomes a IIIaSyn model.

Speaking of places to put post-factory sync terminals, there would be three: the part next to the eyepieces, the top of the top plate, or the front of the body shell. The top plate has some space underneath to accomodate some wires, the synch switch, and the terminal itself. Some Leica have been defaced by having a 'sunk' sync terminal right over the "Leica" script logo.
It's also the easiest place to install the sync- wires will have to run a short straight length, as opposed to installing one on the body where longer wires
snaking through the shutter crate would have to used.

Jay

 

[peterm1]

Could your IIIa be a postwar specimen? According to the Leica Manual (Morgan & Lester XIII edition), these were made until 1950. By then they would have sported DBP instead of DRP. And with the flash conversion -with the sync dial-, your IIIa becomes a IIIaSyn model.

Speaking of places to put post-factory sync terminals, there would be three: the part next to the eyepieces, the top of the top plate, or the front of the body shell. The top plate has some space underneath to accomodate some wires, the synch switch, and the terminal itself. Some Leica have been defaced by having a 'sunk' sync terminal right over the "Leica" script logo.
It's also the easiest place to install the sync- wires will have to run a short straight length, as opposed to installing one on the body where longer wires
snaking through the shutter crate would have to used.

Jay

I don't think its post war - as I recall checking the serial number and finding that it was a 1936 number. Thats why I assume it was prewar with a post war conversion. The Elmar 50mm lens that came with it also had a pre war serial number. Incidentally it was coated. Which suggested to me that it had gone back to Leitz with the body and was coated at the same time. Of course I am assuming but it seems a reasonable supposition