Ilfochrome / Cibachrome toxic?

[matvogel]

Hello,

Is there anybody who knows about possible hazardousness of the current Ilfochrome chemicals? I heard different stories about it. Wasn't the process changed when Ilford bought this from Ciba due to its toxic content? So the old Cibachrome stuff contains formaldehyde? What about the current P30 process from Ilford?

I bought a nice Ilford run through processor, chemicals and paper and would like to know if I would need a gas mask and protective suit 😉

Thanks
Matthias

 

[Freakscene]

Get the MSDS http://ilford.com/h&s/ and follow the safety instructions. You'll be fine. You probably already have cleaning products, paint or some other chemicals in your house that are more toxic - and I'm not joking. But do read the MSDS and take the advice it contains seriously.

Marty

 

[sevo]

As far as I can remember, any post seventies Cibachrome chemistry (I've used P30, P3, P-22 and P4) was not unusually toxic, but the bleach component was very corrosive. As most photo chemistry is alkaline or acidic, and corrosive enough to damage skin, it does not need special handling procedures beyond the gloves generally required.

But it needed acid-proof machinery (later Cibachrome versions were designed so that they could be used in many RA4 processors, but that meant replacing vulnerable parts with Cibachrome safe ones). And depleted chemistry was only to be disposed of (down the drain in small batches or to silver recovery in pro quantities) after mixing all components to neutralize the bleach.

 

[FrozenInTime]

I used the Ilfachrome kits in a Nova slot processor for about a year in the late '90s.
I became sensitized to the chemicals despite the darkroom having an extractor fan.
Wearing a carbon filter face mask helped, but in the end I gave for my health and switched to RA-4.

 

[matvogel]

Thanks so far for your answers. But the last post from FrozenInTime is exactly what caused confusion in the past. So still not clear for me...

My darkroom still does not have active ventilation. When doing b/w I can handle it with opening the door for air circulation when moving prints to the washer. But I built in my Ilfochrome processor underneeth the enlarger on a self built rack. Now I think there is no other option than cutting a hole in both doors ( I have actually one door on two opposite sides of the darkroom) and attach large fans to that holes and build light labyrints from the outside. Lot of work... But I'm so keen in Ilfocolor...

Any other hints?
Br Matthias

 

[tlitody]

I agree with sevo. If your processor is some kind of roller transport and it doesn't have ilfrochrome chemical proof components in it, it will not last very long. That means high grade stainless steel and very high quality rubber and pipes that can take the bleach.
The chemistry is a lot more corrosive than B+W chemistry.

 

[Freakscene]

You definitely need ventilation and extraction.

Marty

 

[matvogel]

The processor is the CAP40 which was a dedicated development for Ilfochrome. I'm optimistic that this will last a while. And although Thermaphot, the maker of this machine, is no longer active in business, the owner still has lots of spare parts for it. He is located in Nuremberg, not far for me.

Regarding ventilation, I already started planning how to make it.

Are you guys also still doing Cibas from time to time?

Thanks again!
Mat.

 

[Freakscene]

I'm not printing Ilfochrome any more. I only did them commercially when I worked in a lab. I have always preferred B&W printing.

Marty

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I had a friend who printed with Cibachrome for more than 20 years. His immune system failed and he ended up dying from cancer in 2006. His doctors at the Indiana University Hospital believed that the Ciba chemicals were responsible for his health problems. Don't let anyone tell you the chemicals we use in photography are 'safer than household cleaners' or any other such garbage. These are industrial chemicals and need to be treated as such. Don't even think of using ANY photo chemicals, even the relatively safe stuff used for most black and white work, without proper active ventilation that vents the fumes OUTDOORS so it doesn't get in the air your family breathes outside your darkroom, and wear gloves when working (and a respirator if using powdered stuff....the powder version of cibachrome is likely what caused my friend's cancer and immune problems, its easier to breathe than the fumes from liquids).

 

[matvogel]

I had a friend who printed with Cibachrome for more than 20 years. His immune system failed and he ended up dying from cancer in 2006. His doctors at the Indiana University Hospital believed that the Ciba chemicals were responsible for his health problems. Don't let anyone tell you the chemicals we use in photography are 'safer than household cleaners' or any other such garbage. These are industrial chemicals and need to be treated as such. Don't even think of using ANY photo chemicals, even the relatively safe stuff used for most black and white work, without proper active ventilation that vents the fumes OUTDOORS so it doesn't get in the air your family breathes outside your darkroom, and wear gloves when working (and a respirator if using powdered stuff....the powder version of cibachrome is likely what caused my friend's cancer and immune problems, its easier to breathe than the fumes from liquids).

Thanks Chris,

I appreciate your input and will definitely be very careful when starting with the Ciba chemicals. I have them already in the house but will only handle it with a respirator when dealing with the powder stuff. Also, I will only start this when I already built in ventilation/exhaustion. I have one door to the darkroom from the inside of my house where I will make the air inlet, and on the opposite side is another door to our washhouse which has a window. On that door I will build a strong fan which exhausts air from the darkroom and the washhouse will be normally ventilated by open window. I hope this will be enough.

Cheers
Matthias

 

[Freakscene]

Don't let anyone tell you the chemicals we use in photography are 'safer than household cleaners' or any other such garbage.

I'm not saying you shouldn't protect yourself; I'm just saying there are other things in your house you should ALSO protect yourself from that you probably don't - I don't know anyone who avoids breathing in fumes from heated teflon pans, for instance.

I was amazed when I was in the US last month that chemical products don't need to have full component labelling. Astounding.

The duration of exposure is always going to be important. protect yourself like you're going to be breathing it in for the rest of your life and you'll be fine.

Marty