Ilford Wash-Aid, Heico Perma-Wash, & What the World is Coming To

[Rob-F]

OK so I had been using Heico Perma-Wash for, I don't know, the last 20 or 25 years or so. I always got it at the local photo store. It's what you use for removing hypo faster so you can shorten the wash time. It's like Kodak Hypo Eliminator except you don't have to mix it from a powder.

OK. so one day I walk into the same store, and ask for Heico Perma-Wash. The guy looks at me like I'm Rip Van Winkel. (This stuff lasts a long time. You don't have to buy it too often.) He says, "OH! No! we wouldn't have that! We haven't had it in a long time. But I could get you some Ilford wash-Aid."

"OK,"says I. And he disappears into the depths of where they keep stuff they don't know what to do with--you know, probably some dusty dark cave back there--there are underground caves in St. Louis--and after some time emerges triumphantly with a quart of Ilford Wash-Aid.

It's not cheap--about 19 bucks. For what? Sodium Sulfite and ammonium sulfite? But I'm in no position to argue. I get out the plastic and take it home. The space in the directions where the treatment time should be printed is blank. So I assume it should be the same as Perma-Wash. After all, how different can Sodium Sulfite be? So I give it a minute in the stuff. But after a couple rolls I'm feeling uneasy, so I read the directions in French. It's supposed to be in the Wash-Aid for ten minutes.

TEN MINUTES! Good grief, 5 minutes pre-wash, 10 minutes Wash-Aid, 5 minutes post wash. That's 20 minutes. I could just leave it in the wash water for that long. OK 25 or 30 minutes. Big deal. This won't do.

I bring up the B&H website. They have Heico Perma-Wash. YAY! 25 bucks plus shipping, but I needed to order some film anyway. It came in today. Just like old times.

But what is the world coming to?

Anybody need a bottle of Ilford Wash-Aid? I didn't use much.

 

[swoop]

Heico was it when I was in college. I remember that bottle leaked like crazy once you removed the foil.

 

[Roger Hicks]

2% sodium sulphite, 0.2% EDTA.

Those times look about right for fibre-base paper, and there's no point in using it for anything else. Are you using it for film? Why?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rob-F]

Roger, it reduces the wash time, which saves water, and reduces the length of time the film spends in the water, which is supposed to be good for the film; for the image. Too much wash time is thought to soften the gelatin too much, with not-good effect on the image. That's the rule I have followed for 20 years or so.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Roger, it reduces the wash time, which saves water, and reduces the length of time the film spends in the water, which is supposed to be good for the film; for the image. Too much wash time is thought to soften the gelatin too much, with not-good effect on the image. That's the rule I have followed for 20 years or so.

It doesn't, actually. Ask Ilford. Sorry if this sounds a bit confrontational, but I couldn't think of a gentler way to put it. The Ilford wash sequence is faster (less wet time); uses less water; and washes to ANSI archival standards. It's very hard to believe that it works, but it does: use any test you like.

Fill the tank with water at more or less processing temperature. Invert 5x. Drain. Fill again. Invert 10x. Drain. Fill again. Invert 20x. Drain. That's it. I then give another wash in distilled water to remove minerals from the tap water (tap water washes faster/better than distilled) followed by a final rinse in distilled water + wetting agent.

This is assuming the use of non-hardening fixer, but then, there's no need to use hardening fixer with modern films either.

I don't know how long I've been using the Ilford sequence, but it's ever since I found out about it, which is well over 20 years.

Contrary to some reports, you don't need to wait 5 minutes between fillings. Source: Ilford.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Gareth Rees]

I've been using the Ilford method described by Roger for a few years now.
It definietly works and it's so much easier.
Why waste water and time?

regards

Gareth

 

[Rayt]

Roger,

Thanks! The tap here get very warm during the Summer so if I can wash film under controlled temperature I will try it. BTW do you mean to use the film processing tank, i.e. Paterson three reel tank which I use to wash film?

Regards,
Ray

 

[Roger Hicks]

BTW do you mean to use the film processing tank, i.e. Paterson three reel tank which I use to wash film?

Dear Ray,

Yes. Just treat it as another processing step, straight after fixing. Opinions differ about how much wash-water temperature matters when you use this method. I prefer +/- 2 degrees C (+/- 5 degrees F) but some regard that as hopelessly sloppy and Ilford reckons that anything more precise is just being obsessive: even +/- 4 degrees shouldn't matter with any of their films.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rayt]

Hi Roger,

What about TMax films? It take a very long washing time to remove that pink dye.

Regards,
Ray

 

[Tim Gray]

What about TMax films? It take a very long washing time to remove that pink dye.

Ilford wash sequence gives my T-Max negatives with no tint. I do let it sit for 5 mins between inversion cycles though. It's probably safe to not do that, as Roger points out, but it doesn't add that much time to the cycle and gives me a chance to clean up and do some other things.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hi Roger,

What about TMax films? It take a very long washing time to remove that pink dye.

Regards,
Ray

Dear Ray,

Fix it for a bit longer.

I don't know about Kodak films, but in corresponding Ilford films it's a sensitizing dye and this is one of the reasons fixing times are longer. Again with Ilford films, the dye will break down (fairly slowly) under exposure to light. An, of course, you can just print through a very faint pink tinge.

Cheers,

R.

 

[kode]

For me, prewetting the t-max for a couple of minutes gets rid of the pink dye. I do fix it for a pretty long time as well, but before I started prewetting the fixer got quite tinted and I still had some tint on the film base.

 

[Rob-F]

I had heard or read of a method of washing by filling the tank and agitating, but I thought it was an emergency method for when there is not enough water. I didn't know the details--three fillings with increasing inversions each time, either.

We don 't have a water shortage here; the Mississippi delivers 1.33 million gallons per second, and it all flows by whether it gets used or not. And what we use and pour out goes right back into the Mississippi again. But we still have to pay for it!

Thanks Roger, I think I'll go that route. No hypo eliminator at all, eh?

 

[Roger Hicks]

No hypo eliminator at all, eh?

That's right. It's really hard to believe, bit I've never seen ANYONE mount a credible attack on the Ilford wash system.

Glad I could help!

Cheers,

R.