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padu

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Introductions first. Hi, my name is Padu and I'm about to jump into the RF world.

I photograph using 35mm SLR's, dSLR's (most of time nowadays) and 4x5 view cameras.

I have some projects in mind that would be better done using an RF. The thing is that there are so many models and choices! I've been reading reviews for the past 2 days and I'm still confused. So I beg for your help.

Here's what I want:

-To have a system (body + lens) for less or around $500
-My prefered lens for this project would be between 35mm and 50mm
-Leica M mount (I guess I have more flexibility that way right?)


I was looking into a Bessa T, it seems that it meets the specs above, but I have no clue on what is frameline. The other thing is that the review on cameraquest says that the bessa T doesn't have a viewfinder, only a rangefinder... I always thought you could compose your photo using the rangefinder. No?


Some pointers appreciated.


I'm in California
 
The Bessa L has no rangefinder, no viewfinder. It is for scale (guesstimate) focus only, and must use an external clip-on accessory for framing/composition. It uses the Leica screw-mount lenses.

The Bessa T has a rangefinder, but no viewfinder. It is just for focusing, otherwise you must also use an external clip-on viewfinder for framing/composition. It uses the Leica M mount lenses.

The Bessa R has rangefinder and viewfinder combined in one window. You use it to focus and to frame/compose. It fits your budget. It uses the Leica screw-mount lenses.

The Bessa R2 and up models are Leica M mount, not Leica screw mount, and they also have combined rangefinder and viewfinder. They cost more than your stated budget.
 
Oh, and the reason you can't use the rangefinder as a viewfinder is because it does not change (on the Bessa T) when you change lenses - so the viewfinder might be accidentally correct for one lens/focal length, and wrong for all the others. The Bessa models with combined viewfinders/rangefinders have framelines that adjust depending on the lens you use to indicate where the edges of the frame are located.
 
padu said:
-To have a system (body + lens) for less or around $500
-My prefered lens for this project would be between 35mm and 50mm
-Leica M mount (I guess I have more flexibility that way right?)





I'm in California
Click to expand...

First, M mount Leica and lens is more exp than $500.

Secondly, given the FL you discuss (35/50mm) you may want to consider a Canon V RF, or possibly a Hexar AF (35mm). There are various possibilities. You may even get lucky and locate a Leica CL with 35mmCL.

The Hexar AF has a stellar lens, comparable to the pre-asph Summicrons. The Hexar is found for around $450. It is considered by many to be one of the best street shooter cameras.

Best - P
 
padu said:
Introductions first. Hi, my name is Padu and I'm about to jump into the RF world.

I photograph using 35mm SLR's, dSLR's (most of time nowadays) and 4x5 view cameras.

I have some projects in mind that would be better done using an RF. The thing is that there are so many models and choices! I've been reading reviews for the past 2 days and I'm still confused. So I beg for your help.

Here's what I want:

-To have a system (body + lens) for less or around $500
-My prefered lens for this project would be between 35mm and 50mm
-Leica M mount (I guess I have more flexibility that way right?)


I was looking into a Bessa T, it seems that it meets the specs above, but I have no clue on what is frameline. The other thing is that the review on cameraquest says that the bessa T doesn't have a viewfinder, only a rangefinder... I always thought you could compose your photo using the rangefinder. No?


Some pointers appreciated.


I'm in California
Click to expand...

Your conditions give you a Bessa T (maybe, depending on the lens could be more expensive) or perhaps a very hardly used Leica CL (I got mine for about half your stated budged but that was just luck). I would recommend you not to exclude a priori a LTM Barnack. There are around a lot of incredible lenses which you can use on any M-mount camera, should you get one later, with an adapter, the cameras are those who made Leica famous, and are usually much cheaper than an M. For me they are even better than the M series as the separate rangefinder with high magnification of most is for me better than the rangefinder viewfinder combination of the M and they are smaller.

GLF
 
giellaleafapmu said:
Your conditions give you a Bessa T (maybe, depending on the lens could be more expensive) or perhaps a very hardly used Leica CL (I got mine for about half your stated budged but that was just luck). I would recommend you not to exclude a priori a LTM Barnack. There are around a lot of incredible lenses which you can use on any M-mount camera, should you get one later, with an adapter, the cameras are those who made Leica famous, and are usually much cheaper than an M. For me they are even better than the M series as the separate rangefinder with high magnification of most is for me better than the rangefinder viewfinder combination of the M and they are smaller.

GLF
Click to expand...

I second the idea of a Leica CL, if M-mount is a strict requirement.
However, the Bessa R with 35/2.5 Color Skopar + 50/2.0 Jupiter 8 would also match your requirements quite well - apart from the M-mount, but I understand that was only for increased flexibility re. choice of lenses.
I don't think that an LTM Barnack would be a good idea because of the separate rangefinder: in particular in the beginning you will end up with a lot of shots out of focus because you just composed and pressed the shutter. Yes, I did it myself! :bang:
So, coming from (D)SLRs, I suggest to go for a combined rangefinder-viewfinder camera.

Best regards,
Uwe
 
I'd say a well-used CL would be a great choice for an M-mount body, and probably on the inexpensive end. FInding a lens for the remainde of the $500 budget would be tough, however.

A well-used screwmount Leica would be easy to find for less than $300, and it's not too hard at all to find clean LTM lenses for less than $200. And any lens you buy for it will work perfectly with an M body down the road (with an adapter). The bonus is even a rough screwmount body, if everything else is in order, has the benefit of having "character," rather than just looking beat 🙂

There are also numerous FSU rangefinders well under your price range. For your budget, you could probably get a pristine Kiev 4M as well as a complete set of Jupiter lenses (50/1.5 J-3, 35/2.8 J-12, 85/2 J-9, 135/4 J-11). Or a FED or Zorki with again, a nice set of lenses. I'm partial to the Kiev's, but the FED/Zorki choice would mean those lenses would work fine with an M down the road as well.
 
Last edited:
Pretty tough to meet your requirements in your budget.

I echo the earlier suggestion that you drop the M-Mount requirement and buy a Bessa R with 35mm f2.5 color skopar.

There are a great many LTM lenses out there to keep you flexible if you stay with the R and you can buy a LTM - M adapter if you want to keep the color skopar after upgrading to a M mount camera.

When all else fails, if you've bought used and carefully, the R/Skopar combination will maintain value pretty well and you can always sell for a move up (flexibility).
 
Ok, so perhaps I should relinquish the leica M requisite. From what you guys described here it will open a wide range of options in my price range.

I liked the loof of the Bessa R2 though...
 
Uwe_Nds said:
I don't think that an LTM Barnack would be a good idea because of the separate rangefinder: in particular in the beginning you will end up with a lot of shots out of focus because you just composed and pressed the shutter. Yes, I did it myself! :bang:

Best regards,
Uwe
Click to expand...

LTM Barnacks are like that: either you love them or you completely dislike them. I find the separate rangefinder a plus, many people I know find that to be a minus... Maybe a good thing would be if he could try one before buying just to know to which group does he belong.

GLF
 
I'd second what Steve (dazedgoneby) says...

I don't think the M-mount gives you more flexibility of lenses, but if you have to have the M-mount, buy an adaptor, leave it on the camera, and swap the screw-mount lenses as necessary. The screw-mount lenses are cheaper, as well, than the M-mount ones. I'd highly recommend the Bessa R with a 35 or 50 lens as a starter. The Voigtlander range of lenses can be examined pretty closely via Cameraquest.com or Photovillage.com, and this forum can get you LOTS of help/opinions.

Regards!
Don
 
fishtek said:
I'd second what Steve (dazedgoneby) says...

I don't think the M-mount gives you more flexibility of lenses, but if you have to have the M-mount, buy an adaptor, leave it on the camera, and swap the screw-mount lenses as necessary. The screw-mount lenses are cheaper, as well, than the M-mount ones. I'd highly recommend the Bessa R with a 35 or 50 lens as a starter. The Voigtlander range of lenses can be examined pretty closely via Cameraquest.com or Photovillage.com, and this forum can get you LOTS of help/opinions.

Regards!
Don
Click to expand...

Yes, the Bessa R is starting to grow on me...
Do you guys think that $375 for a kit is an ok price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Bessa-R-35mm-Rangefinder-Camera-kit_W0QQitemZ110135867654QQihZ001QQcategoryZ107915QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
padu said:
Ok, so perhaps I should relinquish the leica M requisite. From what you guys described here it will open a wide range of options in my price range.

I liked the loof of the Bessa R2 though...
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking.... You may very well be able to find a used R2 and 35mm color skopar in your budget, or very near it.
 
padu said:
Here's what I want:

-To have a system (body + lens) for less or around $500
-My prefered lens for this project would be between 35mm and 50mm
-Leica M mount (I guess I have more flexibility that way right?)
Click to expand...
if it weren't for your M preference you could for $399 plus shipping get the R with the 353/2.5 and warrantee. i did and i think it's really swell. it's an incredibly good deal.

i really don't think there'll be a lot of trouble finding LSM lenses. the line of CV LSM lenses currently available is wide and of exceptionally good value. buy then while they're still available.
 
thefsb said:
if it weren't for your M preference you could for $399 plus shipping get the R with the 353/2.5 and warrantee. i did and i think it's really swell. it's an incredibly good deal.
Click to expand...
I too! Fully agree!

Best regards,
Uwe
 
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