jano
Evil Bokeh
My story's similar to that of many others here:
I diddled around with photography as a kid for a bit, then started again mid 2003 with a simple P&S. Grew into a bigger P&S, then a dslr, then rangefinder, learned to develop b&w film, and now thousands invested in all this equipment.
I've also wasted a lot of time reading reviews of equipment and tearing out my hair trying to make decisions like which camera or which lens.
But there's another hidden element here: I've also spent a lot of time reading up on technique and studying other's pictures for all sorts of photography: available light, street, landscape, portrait, and so on. So I know how to make a photograph, what techniques to use where, what to elements look for composition wise, etc etc etc.
Well yesterday I got my arse handed over to me at my photo club: our theme/field trip was long exposures, something I've become very good at over the past year. All of us had severe problems trying to focus and frame late night with no moon. I understood where exposures should've been, and spent most of the time sharing my knowledge. They listened to me, in order to humor me, and went about taking their own pictures with complete disregard for my suggestions. I had my Iskra II up, bracketed a 10 minute exposure, and another 15 minute one, and a 5 minute one. I ended up with some technically good images. But the others.. ended up with art.
I'm not angry or jealous, just disappointed with myself that I'm allowing all this technical stuff to get in my way -- looking at the history of my photos, it appears that the less I knew, the better the images were.
How does one go about forgetting all he's learned in a specific topic?
I diddled around with photography as a kid for a bit, then started again mid 2003 with a simple P&S. Grew into a bigger P&S, then a dslr, then rangefinder, learned to develop b&w film, and now thousands invested in all this equipment.
I've also wasted a lot of time reading reviews of equipment and tearing out my hair trying to make decisions like which camera or which lens.
But there's another hidden element here: I've also spent a lot of time reading up on technique and studying other's pictures for all sorts of photography: available light, street, landscape, portrait, and so on. So I know how to make a photograph, what techniques to use where, what to elements look for composition wise, etc etc etc.
Well yesterday I got my arse handed over to me at my photo club: our theme/field trip was long exposures, something I've become very good at over the past year. All of us had severe problems trying to focus and frame late night with no moon. I understood where exposures should've been, and spent most of the time sharing my knowledge. They listened to me, in order to humor me, and went about taking their own pictures with complete disregard for my suggestions. I had my Iskra II up, bracketed a 10 minute exposure, and another 15 minute one, and a 5 minute one. I ended up with some technically good images. But the others.. ended up with art.
I'm not angry or jealous, just disappointed with myself that I'm allowing all this technical stuff to get in my way -- looking at the history of my photos, it appears that the less I knew, the better the images were.
How does one go about forgetting all he's learned in a specific topic?
back alley
IMAGES
make it fun again, not a university course with grades?
charjohncarter
Veteran
I would say keep trying. I've photographed everything in site for 50+ years and I still learn from every image. Then there is the mind of critics! Be careful, sometimes they wouldn't tell their mother she look good.
charjohncarter
Veteran
We've all had our, shall I say 'not so helpful critics.'
Topdog1
Well-known
Wisdom is what is left after you've forgotten everything you've learned. Learn to forget.
/Ira
/Ira
jano
Evil Bokeh
Joe.. good idea, but how do you do it? I'm a bit out of the norm, when I was in college, I enjoyed almost every class I took (and since I took whatever classes interested me.. it was tough coming up with a major in the end, haha), and didn't care what grades I got (ended up doing pretty good nonetheless).
Guess what charjohncarter has to say is good, just keeping plugging along. But why, when it stops becoming fun? Which ties in nicely to Joe's suggestion, how do you make it more fun? More gear?
Ira's statement is rather deep, and makes a good point. But being the smartarse I am what do you call it when you forget how to forget? (sitar music abounds within the scent of incense and espresso)
Guess what charjohncarter has to say is good, just keeping plugging along. But why, when it stops becoming fun? Which ties in nicely to Joe's suggestion, how do you make it more fun? More gear?
Ira's statement is rather deep, and makes a good point. But being the smartarse I am
what do you call it when you forget how to forget? (sitar music abounds within the scent of incense and espresso)
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Get back to enjoying images not technical stuff. These feelings will pass and you will make great photos that other people appreciate. And if they don't then they don't.
My bank is sponsoring a major art exhibition and I'm really looking forward to seeing the paintings in a way that I wouldn't be excited by being given a ticket to see the Leica M9.
Also, look out for a book 'Art & Fear' about why we make creative work and why we all go through times of limited output, misunderstanding and self-doubt.
My bank is sponsoring a major art exhibition and I'm really looking forward to seeing the paintings in a way that I wouldn't be excited by being given a ticket to see the Leica M9.
Also, look out for a book 'Art & Fear' about why we make creative work and why we all go through times of limited output, misunderstanding and self-doubt.
FrankS
Registered User
You need the technical background as a foundation upon which you build your art. Up to now, you've been working on the foundation. It appears that it's time and you're ready to work on the creative aspect.
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
jano said:just keeping plugging along. But why, when it stops becoming fun? , how do you make it more fun? More gear?
Yes and no. I faced a similar situation recently. Both answer and problem, so I believe, to some extent lies in equipment and related attitudes.
A look at any photoforum will reveal that gear collection and gear chat are not infrequently displacement activities whose sole purpose is to avoid the threat of creativity. Likewise, some ideal of correct practise or technical perfection becomes a protective barrier, whose real function is to prevent the self-exposure implicit in any successful photograph. Technical excellence is only of value if it serves as a medium for creation and expression, otherwise it is sterile, meaningless and corrupting. Therein lie the unspeakable hells that are the works of Jack Vettriano!
My advice - from my own experience - is simply this. The lack of "fun", by which we mean joy in creation and self-expression, is the result of the current priorities of your photographic practice. So reverse those priorities.
I was obsessed with a particular sort of technical effect - so instead spent an hilarious week with nothing but an Agfa Clack and subsequently inverted the entire system of photography which I had built into an idol. My habitual ultra-fast films were changed for ultra slow. My collection was reduced to a single beloved camera of a type I would not have previously used and all available taboos were broken. Above all, don't give a damn. Everything you held certain and precious - do the opposite and see what happens. The only thing you will not find on that path is mediocrity or lack of fun
Cheers, Ian
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bsdunek
Old Guy with a Corgi
A couple of things:
1. FrankS is right. You need some technical background or you won't understand what you're doing, or how to correct it.
2. I'm a 'left brain' person (according to my wife). This means I get into the technical side of things, and not the 'touchy, feely, artistic' side. We're born one way or the other, or sometimes somewhere inbetween (my wife - she can see both sides). That's why I became an engineer.
In any case, it's hard to do what you're not wired to do. I have spent 60 years trying to get the feel for the artistic side. I'm pretty good, but tend to backslide into worring about the technical aspects too much.
Just study art - old painters is a good place to start - and you'll get better.
1. FrankS is right. You need some technical background or you won't understand what you're doing, or how to correct it.
2. I'm a 'left brain' person (according to my wife). This means I get into the technical side of things, and not the 'touchy, feely, artistic' side. We're born one way or the other, or sometimes somewhere inbetween (my wife - she can see both sides). That's why I became an engineer.
In any case, it's hard to do what you're not wired to do. I have spent 60 years trying to get the feel for the artistic side. I'm pretty good, but tend to backslide into worring about the technical aspects too much.
Just study art - old painters is a good place to start - and you'll get better.
BrianShaw
Well-known
You are in a tough situation... one I know well. I, too, "overthink" stuff sometimes. Other times I "underthink" things. One technique I've found to overcome this is to join forces with a total opposite for a mutual learning experience... then try to emulate the opposite way of thinking.
back alley
IMAGES
the threat of creativity...
makes me wonder, forces me to think...
makes me wonder, forces me to think...
akptc
Shoot first, think later
I have discovered over the years of uptightness about technical details (I tend to be the proverbial engineer) that a couple of good Pilzners will relax me enough to let go and just be creative, whether it's playing an instrument, painting, or taking pictures. But it only lasts a short while...
pvdhaar
Peter
My guess is that you're too focused on the camera instead of the subject matter. What you need is a camera that doesn't give you any control whatsoever. It doesn't really matter wether it's a single use or a bargain point and shoot. The whole point is that you've got nothing but the peephole to worry about, and that you don't take it too seriously. Snap fast, and snap furious. Work that way for a couple of rolls and see how liberating and how much fun that is.. and most important, you'll find some gems amonst the results..jano said:
R
rpsawin
Guest
FWIW...
I'll bet that you got into photography because of an emotional response you experienced more than the thoughts you had as a result of the emotions. So, what type of images "hook" you? See if you can identify what gets you excited and motivated.
Maybe street shooting is the genre that you like. So, load up your favorite camera with your favorite film, select one or two lenses and take a walk where you can shoot lots of people (yes, I know "shoot" is not pc). If it's landscape load up and take a drive. Look for images that speak to you and get back in touch with that.
Good luck,
Bob
I'll bet that you got into photography because of an emotional response you experienced more than the thoughts you had as a result of the emotions. So, what type of images "hook" you? See if you can identify what gets you excited and motivated.
Maybe street shooting is the genre that you like. So, load up your favorite camera with your favorite film, select one or two lenses and take a walk where you can shoot lots of people (yes, I know "shoot" is not pc). If it's landscape load up and take a drive. Look for images that speak to you and get back in touch with that.
Good luck,
Bob
tkluck
Well-known
Phooey!
I enjoy the "technical side". I like playing with cameras. They are fascinating little clockwork machines. A splendid evolution that goes back to the old stone age, paralleling the evolution of Man.
I'm damned if I'm going to let the fact that I really don't take many very good pictures spoil the fun!
I enjoy the "technical side". I like playing with cameras. They are fascinating little clockwork machines. A splendid evolution that goes back to the old stone age, paralleling the evolution of Man.
I'm damned if I'm going to let the fact that I really don't take many very good pictures spoil the fun!
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
It seems to me you've spent the time learning the technical stuff for a reason. What was that in service of?
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
Hi,
I know what you mean. I know about everything there is to know.
I take a course now and then. But not led by a technician but led by an artist. Right now I do a course on documentary photography. There is no technical talk at all. It is only about the images. This really helps me. But I also see people who don't know enough about the technique and therefore don't get the results they had in mind.
Another way is to focus a longer time on one camera/lens and/or subject. Take a simple camera. Personaly I like a Canonet, a TLR or a Leica CM. At least stick to one lens. Learn to work with that camera/lens in a fast and intiutive way focused on one subject. You will see you will get better. If you're not satisfied, go back and to do it again.
Anyway, nobody is creative all the time. Sometimes it just doesnt work. Don't worry, it will come back.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
I know what you mean. I know about everything there is to know.
I take a course now and then. But not led by a technician but led by an artist. Right now I do a course on documentary photography. There is no technical talk at all. It is only about the images. This really helps me. But I also see people who don't know enough about the technique and therefore don't get the results they had in mind.
Another way is to focus a longer time on one camera/lens and/or subject. Take a simple camera. Personaly I like a Canonet, a TLR or a Leica CM. At least stick to one lens. Learn to work with that camera/lens in a fast and intiutive way focused on one subject. You will see you will get better. If you're not satisfied, go back and to do it again.
Anyway, nobody is creative all the time. Sometimes it just doesnt work. Don't worry, it will come back.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
i don't think that not knowing technical issues will help anyone produce "art".
Maybe it's not needed but it certainly does not make it worse if you know what are you doing.
Ending up with art because they accidentally misfocused or badly exposed (that's what I understand from your post) is not the proper way of producing art (or anything else for that matter), i would say.
But certainly, one should not focus on the technical side if that's not the goal. This can be done either by having it as a reflex, or by not knowing anything about it and hoping for the best (or leaving it to camera automation, which can work surprisingly well in many cases). If one is in the middle, then it might keep him busy.
Maybe it's not needed but it certainly does not make it worse if you know what are you doing.
Ending up with art because they accidentally misfocused or badly exposed (that's what I understand from your post) is not the proper way of producing art (or anything else for that matter), i would say.
But certainly, one should not focus on the technical side if that's not the goal. This can be done either by having it as a reflex, or by not knowing anything about it and hoping for the best (or leaving it to camera automation, which can work surprisingly well in many cases). If one is in the middle, then it might keep him busy.
bsdunek
Old Guy with a Corgi
One should do what they enjoy. One of the great things about photography is that there are so many ways to enjoy it.tkluck said:
While I continually try to do better artistically, I also enjoy my somewhat extensive collection of antique cameras and equipment, and enjoy the mechanical excellence of good equipment.