In defence of the DSLR.

Amen. The "problem" many of us have who don't need/want high speed AF is that until recently it was not possible to get the high ISO performance of a dSLR without getting the "lardy" dSLR body along with it. Yes, after a couple hours plodding through the instruction manual & experimenting I was able to set up my D700 to work like a film SLR from the 1980s, but I'm still stuck w/a body that's inferior for manual focusing (sorry, Keith, but I don't find the D700's finder to be "excellent" even when compared to an F from 1960) & has many other features I'll never use (& inevitably add bulk & weight to the camera).

As others have posted, the dSLR doesn't need "defending," but it's not the right tool for everybody, hence the interest in mirrorless systems, and even, heaven forbid, rangefinders (on the Rangefinder Forum, no less!).

The AF system on the D300 and D700 is amazing. It is also complex and initial selection of the best parameters is tedious. Fortunately there are informative guides available from numerous sources.
 
Im personally really liking this mirrorless surge currently happening. I'm curious as to what will happen when mirrorless cameras really take over DSLRs in sales and the big camera companies are made to focus their efforts on the mirrorless market instead... The legacy 35mm lens systems from Nikon and Canon will be too big on a small mirrorless body... Companies like Olympus, Sony, and Fujifilm have a big advantage here over Nikon and Canon because they have already implemented systems and lenses in place. With mirrorless technology improving at a huge rate we're already seeing tiny little cheap cameras like the OM-d and the X-pro1 take it to DSLRs in IQ and overall usability (with some exceptions).
 
Yes, but how much have you spent on film/processing in 5 or 10 years? Don't get me wrong, I favour film to digital, but if you shoot more than a small amount, digital is almost always going to be cheaper. Even if your £1000 DSLR is worthless the second you buy it.

Film photography will cost more, but for those of us who like it, it's worth more too.

I've always found too many factors going on, to make it clearcut that digital will always be the cheaper option. The fact I shoot less with film, have other costs I would not have with film, and if you print, makes it a fuzzy comparison whenever I try it. Per captured image, digital will often be cheaper, but doing some homework on my own shooting, I made the surprising discovery that each digital frame I shot cost me about €0.15 or so, given my shooting volume.

At least with black and white anyway, digital for colour seems to be more clear.
 
as cool machines as steam engines are, nobody but museums have them. mirrorless is emerging technology, mirror box brings bulkier lenses that nobody want if there is alternative. funny how rangefinders are both modern and legacy technology same time 🙂
 
I don't know... there is a group of people out there who thinks the bigger the better for sure. Not everyone has our biases towards size.

Definitely agree with that. See people lugging bug dslr bodies, with heaving telephotos or f2.8 zooms all the time. Not for me, but it seems to be for a lot of other people
 
Amen. The "problem" many of us have who don't need/want high speed AF is that until recently it was not possible to get the high ISO performance of a dSLR without getting the "lardy" dSLR body along with it. Yes, after a couple hours plodding through the instruction manual & experimenting I was able to set up my D700 to work like a film SLR from the 1980s, but I'm still stuck w/a body that's inferior for manual focusing (sorry, Keith, but I don't find the D700's finder to be "excellent" even when compared to an F from 1960) & has many other features I'll never use (& inevitably add bulk & weight to the camera).

As others have posted, the dSLR doesn't need "defending," but it's not the right tool for everybody, hence the interest in mirrorless systems, and even, heaven forbid, rangefinders (on the Rangefinder Forum, no less!).



Well ... excellent compared to any other DSLR finder I've experienced! 😀

The only other DSLR I've ever owned was a D70 ... that was pretty average from memory.
 
True enough. Not just dSLRs, but every AF film SLR since the modern (EOS) AF era has pretty much sucked (adequate at best) when compared to the last pro-level manual focus bodies. Perfectly understandable as AF keeps getting better & better, most users have no need for manual focus.

From what I've seen, only the Sony Alpha A900 has a good old-school VF, but that's not surprising since it's a legacy Konica Minolta design.

Well ... excellent compared to any other DSLR finder I've experienced! 😀

The only other DSLR I've ever owned was a D70 ... that was pretty average from memory.
 
It's true. The high ISO capabilities of these new sensors is amazing. I don't shoot enough sports or nature photography to warrant the purchase of a good dslr though.

The biggest problem with DSLR's? The resale value goes to zilch the second you buy it. This is why I will rent a dslr when I shoot professionally (which I admit is rare) and I will keep shooting street with film.

I am always afraid to mention this being afraid that if too many people realise what I am going to say now eventually this will no longer be true but...

This is a problem if you buy new, it is great if you don't mind buying second hand (I don't).

A Canon EOS5d produces still great pictures and can be bought for something less than 800 US$ only because there exist a Mark II and now a Mark III version of the camera. For people using cameras to show off maybe it's not good but for the rest of us taking pictures these "obsolete" cameras are just great. Similar examples can be found in the Nikon, Sony, Pentax whatever line of cameras.

Ok, maybe someone really needs 38 megapixels or the fastest autofocus but for a lot of professional work as well as most of what you might want to shot for fun they are just fine. I use for most of what I do a Fujifilm S5Pro with a Nikon kit lens (it used to be considered good, it is the 18-70 3.5-4.5 G ED, but it is old and it is a kit lens) or the Nikkor 50mm f1.4 EI-S for tabletop shots and no one has ever complained about the quality of the prints from these combinations (even easier if the work will go to the www). I have the more expensive Nikon 17-55 f2.8 G ED-IF which, of course, produces better images but to see this difference you need either to look at a 100% crop or really have a difficult light situation, shot against the light, completely open etc.

I think too many people (myself included) spend too much time on the net and too little actually taking pictures.

GLF
 
I am always afraid to mention this being afraid that if too many people realise what I am going to say now eventually this will no longer be true but...

This is a problem if you buy new, it is great if you don't mind buying second hand (I don't).

A Canon EOS5d produces still great pictures and can be bought for something less than 800 US$ only because there exist a Mark II and now a Mark III version of the camera. For people using cameras to show off maybe it's not good but for the rest of us taking pictures these "obsolete" cameras are just great. Similar examples can be found in the Nikon, Sony, Pentax whatever line of cameras.

Ok, maybe someone really needs 38 megapixels or the fastest autofocus but for a lot of professional work as well as most of what you might want to shot for fun they are just fine. I use for most of what I do a Fujifilm S5Pro with a Nikon kit lens (it used to be considered good, it is the 18-70 3.5-4.5 G ED, but it is old and it is a kit lens) or the Nikkor 50mm f1.4 EI-S for tabletop shots and no one has ever complained about the quality of the prints from these combinations (even easier if the work will go to the www). I have the more expensive Nikon 17-55 f2.8 G ED-IF which, of course, produces better images but to see this difference you need either to look at a 100% crop or really have a difficult light situation, shot against the light, completely open etc.

I think too many people (myself included) spend too much time on the net and too little actually taking pictures.

GLF

For a non-professional, or someone not shooting critically, buying used is a great way to keep money sunk into cameras low. I've done this with the last few dslrs I've owned, and been pretty happy. That said, on the balance of things you probably don't gain an awful lot. With an used camera, you are probably buying it 18 months- 2 years after it was introduced, and also giving up the warranty you would have if you bought now. Against that, you are sinking less money into the camera, which is always nice with a quickly depreciating product.

I've gone both routes myself. I bought a D200 new for €1350, kept it for 3.5 years, and then sold it for €500. In other words, 3 years of useage for €850, along with the benefits of the newest technology, and the associated guarantee on the body. On the flipside, I bought a D300, the next model, just 12- 15 months ago, for €700. Will very well keep it for 3.5 years also, and sell it when I am ready to move on, and am not sure I will be able to find anyone interested in a camera with 6 year old technology at that point. Net result €700 for the same level of usage, but with the disadvantage of older technology, and lack of camera warranty.

Buying used can be the right option, but you do give up a few things by doing so.

In any case, the next few years should be very interesting. For me, sensor technology is not too far away from all I will ever need in it. Resolution and high iso performance are there, and the push is now on dynamic range to do the same. Accompanied by the development that AA filters are being left out of more and more cameras, with moiré likely to become a problem solved entirely by software in the future, soon I feel digital will be at the point where I no longer see a need to upgrade for reasons of sensor technology. Those will be interesting days, and feel we are not too far away from build quality and durability determining how long we keep our digital cameras, no longer upgrading to keep up with the tech curve and to gain valuable improved image quality, but rather that our camera actually wore out.
 
A few M shooters go on about the size thing, about how fabulously compact an M is and then slap a Noctilux, 50 aspheric or 75 1.4 on the front! Those that can't afford them seem to hanker after them! The truth is that an OM1 or Pentax MX or any number of R cameras is just as small. The size debate is for me a non starter these days. Using pro Nikon bodies and lenses get me the results I want and couldn't get using M's with whatever lens you stick on the front. Don't get me wrong, I liked using my MP and M2 with some tri-x and a 35 or 50 and on occasion liked the lighter weight BUT and it's a big BUT, when you can take one camera and one lens on a trip, I would always take a Nikon with 24-70 attached.
a/ I don't have to worry about it getting wet
b/ it is more versatile and much easier to get accurately focused and well exposed pics.
I'm not bothered about user experience these days, all I want is good pictures.
For those worrying about weight etc the best investment I made was the wide Leica straps used for the R8/9 which have a wide shoulder pad.
I shot a 4 day wedding recently with 2 assistants and for most of it was carrying 2 bodies with 24-70 and 70-200 plus flashguns. Those straps are amazing for spreading the weight!
If you want compact and light weight, then an M and a decent lens is not the way to go 🙂
 
If you want compact and light weight, then an M and a decent lens is not the way to go 🙂

If I want compact and light weight, then an M and a decent lens is not the way I go


There you go, some preachiness slipped into your outline of what works for you 😉
 
I shot a 4 day wedding recently with 2 assistants and for most of it was carrying 2 bodies with 24-70 and 70-200 plus flashguns. -- -- If you want compact and light weight, then an M and a decent lens is not the way to go 🙂
How compact and light weight were the assistants? 😱
 
How compact and light weight were the assistants? 😱

now that's funny😀 they were actually 2nd and 3rd shooters as it was a big event and I was asked by the couple to do my best to cover everything from getting up at the start of the days until the finish.
 
Clayton M. Christensen wrote a book "The Innovator's
Dilemma", where companies continued to innovate within
the product line but not investing in emerging technologies
which were at the point in time inferior but held huge promises.
Ultimately, the incumbent product line continued to evolve
and became top of the class but were expensive and limited to
premium customers, while the newer emerging technologies
got better and better until it totally replaced in incumbent.

examples cited in the book:
Pulley based cranes vs hydraulic systems
Japanese transistor radios in the '60s versus the incumbent RCA
COmputer disk storage technologies, 11" to 8" to 5.1/4 drives to 3.5"

i won't be surprised that mirror-less cameras continue to innovate,
moving from inferior to good enough to become great, while DSLR
continue to hold the high end but shrinking niche market.

a bit like the film vs digital transition, no ?

raytoei
 
Clayton M. Christensen wrote a book "The Innovator's
Dilemma", where companies continued to innovate within
the product line but not investing in emerging technologies
which were at the point in time inferior but held huge promises.
Ultimately, the incumbent product line continued to evolve
and became top of the class but were expensive and limited to
premium customers, while the newer emerging technologies
got better and better until it totally replaced in incumbent.



Fail to plan, plan to fail ?
 
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