Ganku_Gorrija
Newbie
Hello all
I have been redaing through the threads here for a few days now, and I have to say the help and knowledge people get here is superb. So i figured why not ask rather than suffer in silence haha
I have been a 35mm, medium format (6x6) and large format (5x4) for a while. When I say while, not nearly as long as most people here its seems but at least 3 years. I mainly do contemporary work as my course is geared to the art (think Andreas Gursky, for example).
Athough I love medium and large format, I also like to do some street photography and for this I use my Canon AE-1 and generally a 50/1.8 or a 28/2.8. I also push my film , sometimes up to 3 stops, for the desired look. U can view some stuff here. http://www.peripheraleye.blogspot.com/
But now I have some money (being a student this is a miracle!) and will be going to Japan to visit the inlaws.
So I have been looking closely at the Leica M6 and the ZI. Having never used a RF I am kinda lost as to what setup is best in terms of lens and essentally camera body. Although I know the glass is the essential element (no pun), the body is also a playing factor in any photographers choice of camera.
I like the idea of the ZI, not being a large fellow, the size is essential. And I dont mind the fact the it does not have a leica number plate.
So essentially my question is about the types of lens that are available. Should I go for the ZI branded or maybe look at Leica?
I know the question is open to endless readings, but any help at all on some of the lens's avialable and some why's and for's would be highly appreciated
Much thanks in advance
Ganku
I have been redaing through the threads here for a few days now, and I have to say the help and knowledge people get here is superb. So i figured why not ask rather than suffer in silence haha
I have been a 35mm, medium format (6x6) and large format (5x4) for a while. When I say while, not nearly as long as most people here its seems but at least 3 years. I mainly do contemporary work as my course is geared to the art (think Andreas Gursky, for example).
Athough I love medium and large format, I also like to do some street photography and for this I use my Canon AE-1 and generally a 50/1.8 or a 28/2.8. I also push my film , sometimes up to 3 stops, for the desired look. U can view some stuff here. http://www.peripheraleye.blogspot.com/
But now I have some money (being a student this is a miracle!) and will be going to Japan to visit the inlaws.
So I have been looking closely at the Leica M6 and the ZI. Having never used a RF I am kinda lost as to what setup is best in terms of lens and essentally camera body. Although I know the glass is the essential element (no pun), the body is also a playing factor in any photographers choice of camera.
I like the idea of the ZI, not being a large fellow, the size is essential. And I dont mind the fact the it does not have a leica number plate.
So essentially my question is about the types of lens that are available. Should I go for the ZI branded or maybe look at Leica?
I know the question is open to endless readings, but any help at all on some of the lens's avialable and some why's and for's would be highly appreciated
Much thanks in advance
Ganku
Joe Vitessa
Well-known
I usually recommend getting a Bessa first to see if RF photography is for you. They are great cameras and much cheaper than ZI or Leica. And if it's the glass you're mainly interested in (as you should be), that's even a better reason to chose the Bessa so you can spend more $$$ on lenses. Of course, if you really must have a ZI or Leica M6, I'd decide first if you find automatic exposure necessary or not. If so, go for the ZI, if not, go with the Leica. I chose a ZI over the M6 for just that reason.
brachal
Refrigerated User
The ZI, M6, and most Bessas are all Leica M mount, so you can use the same lenses on all of the bodies mentioned. I'd second the recommendation of a Bessa; it'll save you $500 or $600 that you can use for lenses and they are very capable cameras. You might want to look into Voigtlander lenses as well. They perform very well and are an excellent value for the money.
retow
Well-known
If AE matters, the M6 is no option.
Otherwise, you can not go wrong with the ZI or M6 (there are plenty of threads about the pros and cons of the two).
My favourite lightbox, though, is the Konica Hexar RF. It simply offers more than the M6 or the ZI (AE, AE lock, build in motor, fastest shutter speed 1/4000th, low speed manually 4 seconds, DX film loading, titanium body etc etc!).
Otherwise, you can not go wrong with the ZI or M6 (there are plenty of threads about the pros and cons of the two).
My favourite lightbox, though, is the Konica Hexar RF. It simply offers more than the M6 or the ZI (AE, AE lock, build in motor, fastest shutter speed 1/4000th, low speed manually 4 seconds, DX film loading, titanium body etc etc!).
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Ganku_Gorrija
Newbie
Many thanks for your quick response guys.
Hmmm I have been looking at the Bessa. Looks like a super camera for the money, and pretty cheap in Japan also.
In terms of wether I would like using a rangefinder, hmmm I guess I would favour on the yes. I will also be taking a 3 week trip across Japan and would ideally have a camera and lens setup to do a lot of photography and some serious low light stuff. For this reason (and some others) I figure the RF is the best, as there is no shutter slap and apparently are brighter at the same fstop as a normal lens, by half a stop? The last comment I have no idea about so I would appreciate some informed knowledge on this.
I will diffinately look at he Bessa, but as I have some money its so tempting to spend that bit extra and get a more than decent level kit. I can also afford 2or 3 lens's. Which would you recommend from experience? I am mostly concerned with good contrast, sharpness and weight. Again any help I would greatly appreciate.
Ganku
Hmmm I have been looking at the Bessa. Looks like a super camera for the money, and pretty cheap in Japan also.
In terms of wether I would like using a rangefinder, hmmm I guess I would favour on the yes. I will also be taking a 3 week trip across Japan and would ideally have a camera and lens setup to do a lot of photography and some serious low light stuff. For this reason (and some others) I figure the RF is the best, as there is no shutter slap and apparently are brighter at the same fstop as a normal lens, by half a stop? The last comment I have no idea about so I would appreciate some informed knowledge on this.
I will diffinately look at he Bessa, but as I have some money its so tempting to spend that bit extra and get a more than decent level kit. I can also afford 2or 3 lens's. Which would you recommend from experience? I am mostly concerned with good contrast, sharpness and weight. Again any help I would greatly appreciate.
Ganku
Ganku_Gorrija
Newbie
Sorry Retow, got your post after i sent mine out haha
I am not overly concerned with auto exposure, having used a Nikon photon F2 for a while and Olympus Om. I like the idea of a little needle moving around in my camera hahah
But yes, at some point it jars having to quickly adjust and possibly loose the shot and then have to compensate / save in the darkroom or developing stage.
But I will certainly have a look
Many thanks again
I await further info! haha
Ganku
I am not overly concerned with auto exposure, having used a Nikon photon F2 for a while and Olympus Om. I like the idea of a little needle moving around in my camera hahah
But yes, at some point it jars having to quickly adjust and possibly loose the shot and then have to compensate / save in the darkroom or developing stage.
But I will certainly have a look
Many thanks again
I await further info! haha
Ganku
philhirn
Medic
Ganku, the picture you posted on your blog today is wonderful! And while diving into RFs, consider going meterless - making the most wonderful leicas (i.e. 2-4) available at a reasonable price. First use a handheld meter and then, as you get a feel for light (I'm at the beginning of that road, too), rely on your estimates.
Handling such a fine machine that works without batteries in it at all (just think of it, no electricity required! in our day and age) is just amazing
Handling such a fine machine that works without batteries in it at all (just think of it, no electricity required! in our day and age) is just amazing
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BillBingham2
Registered User
Ganku,
I think the idea of starting out slow with the body (getting a Bessa) is a great approach. I looked to a Bessa when I was getting back into RF and wanted a camera that I would not cry over if it got trashed. From what you seem to like, take a look at Stephen’s web site (read read the entire site!) and look at either an R4M or R4A. I think it would be a great place for you to start.
From a lens perspective try CV lenses as an almost as good (very close to ZI and Leica lenses) but much lower cost option. A great street set would be a 15mm, 25mm and a 40mm, all CV. The 40 will give you speed, the 25 I think you will find using it most of the time and the 15 for fun.
While I own several Leica lenses, my main kit is most CV and Nikkor lenses. For me that are wonderful and do not break the bank.
B2 (;->
Added: For low light work, you might change the 25 out for a 28/1.9 and the 40 for a 50/1.5. If you "see" with a 50mm frame, you will love the 40 and the slowness of the 25 can be overcome by carrying a table top tripod (Leica or Minolta) and a cable release. I still stay with the 15/25/40 for what you have described.
I think the idea of starting out slow with the body (getting a Bessa) is a great approach. I looked to a Bessa when I was getting back into RF and wanted a camera that I would not cry over if it got trashed. From what you seem to like, take a look at Stephen’s web site (read read the entire site!) and look at either an R4M or R4A. I think it would be a great place for you to start.
From a lens perspective try CV lenses as an almost as good (very close to ZI and Leica lenses) but much lower cost option. A great street set would be a 15mm, 25mm and a 40mm, all CV. The 40 will give you speed, the 25 I think you will find using it most of the time and the 15 for fun.
While I own several Leica lenses, my main kit is most CV and Nikkor lenses. For me that are wonderful and do not break the bank.
B2 (;->
Added: For low light work, you might change the 25 out for a 28/1.9 and the 40 for a 50/1.5. If you "see" with a 50mm frame, you will love the 40 and the slowness of the 25 can be overcome by carrying a table top tripod (Leica or Minolta) and a cable release. I still stay with the 15/25/40 for what you have described.
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jbf
||||||
From what I have seen and used... I would say the Zeiss glass is quite fantastic.
I use vintage zeiss copy's (Jupiter-8's, and Jupiter-12's) for my shooting both of which are zeiss copies (one being a Zeiss Sonnar copy and the other a Zeiss Biogon copy). As far as their modern Sonnar and Biogon copy I have heard wonderful things about the Biogon and ZM Planar. I would not hestitate one moment to buy either the 35 Biogon (or 28/25/etc) or the Zeiss ZM planar. Both of which seem to be beautiful lenses with great flare resistant designs, etc.
As far as body... that's an extremely tough one.
I recently purchased my first Leica M3 a week or two ago and I love it. The fact that it is all mechanical is great and I have really started to get used to setting my f-stop and shutter speed and anticipating the moment.
I've gotten some great photos out of this approach.
However at the same time I really really want to buy a Zeiss Ikon. I would love to have a metered camera with AE so that when the going gets tough I can set my camera to AE and insure that I get a good exposure. There have been times when my sunny-16 estimations on shutter speed, etc have been completely off and because of this I have lost shots that otherwise would have been outstanding.
So all in all... I would say if you want a metered camera with AE i would highly suggest the Zeiss Ikon. Even if you just want a metered camera I say go for it.
The only downside is that it requires batters. However, that issue really isnt an issue so long as you insure that you have a spare or two (i would say two just to be safe) of backup batteries in your pack with you.
Personally I have a feeling that come Christmas time, I'll be selling my M3 in order to buy a Zeiss Ikon. Who knows though. We'll see.
I use vintage zeiss copy's (Jupiter-8's, and Jupiter-12's) for my shooting both of which are zeiss copies (one being a Zeiss Sonnar copy and the other a Zeiss Biogon copy). As far as their modern Sonnar and Biogon copy I have heard wonderful things about the Biogon and ZM Planar. I would not hestitate one moment to buy either the 35 Biogon (or 28/25/etc) or the Zeiss ZM planar. Both of which seem to be beautiful lenses with great flare resistant designs, etc.
As far as body... that's an extremely tough one.
I recently purchased my first Leica M3 a week or two ago and I love it. The fact that it is all mechanical is great and I have really started to get used to setting my f-stop and shutter speed and anticipating the moment.
I've gotten some great photos out of this approach.
However at the same time I really really want to buy a Zeiss Ikon. I would love to have a metered camera with AE so that when the going gets tough I can set my camera to AE and insure that I get a good exposure. There have been times when my sunny-16 estimations on shutter speed, etc have been completely off and because of this I have lost shots that otherwise would have been outstanding.
So all in all... I would say if you want a metered camera with AE i would highly suggest the Zeiss Ikon. Even if you just want a metered camera I say go for it.
The only downside is that it requires batters. However, that issue really isnt an issue so long as you insure that you have a spare or two (i would say two just to be safe) of backup batteries in your pack with you.
Personally I have a feeling that come Christmas time, I'll be selling my M3 in order to buy a Zeiss Ikon. Who knows though. We'll see.
mfogiel
Veteran
I think that regardless if you take a ZI or a Leica M6 (make sure to take the 0.72 one in case), you will be hooked by the rangefinders for the fast and low light photography . I use Bessas and a ZI, but if ZI came with different VF magnifications, I would stick just with this brand - mainly for the VF, the ease of AE metering and overall price/quality ratio. Leicas are legends, but a bit too quirky in comparison. and for me the VF is simply too inferior (I wear glasses).
As for the lenses, Leica makes some legendary ones - also im terms of price - but again in price/quality terms CV lenses and ZI lenses are winners in my opinion. If you are after an all around lens that will never let you down for the street photography the Biogon 35 ZM is great, if you want spectacular low light portraits the CV 35/1.2 is exceptional, if you want a great, compact, wide lens for range scale people shots the Leica 28/2.8 ASPH should be the choice, if you want the best price/performance starter lens the 35/1.7 Ultron is the one.
I think that if you manage to buy a (well aligned - check on it) ZI with the 35/1.2 Nokton, you put 5 rolls through it and you don't like the results, then the RF photography is not for you - but be warned, if you fall in it will be for life.
As for the lenses, Leica makes some legendary ones - also im terms of price - but again in price/quality terms CV lenses and ZI lenses are winners in my opinion. If you are after an all around lens that will never let you down for the street photography the Biogon 35 ZM is great, if you want spectacular low light portraits the CV 35/1.2 is exceptional, if you want a great, compact, wide lens for range scale people shots the Leica 28/2.8 ASPH should be the choice, if you want the best price/performance starter lens the 35/1.7 Ultron is the one.
I think that if you manage to buy a (well aligned - check on it) ZI with the 35/1.2 Nokton, you put 5 rolls through it and you don't like the results, then the RF photography is not for you - but be warned, if you fall in it will be for life.
thomasw_
Well-known
I recommend:>
ZI and these ZM lenses: 25/2.8, 35/2, 50/2. A sweet, practical kit for street shooting and some landscapes if you have the dollars to dish out
ZI and these ZM lenses: 25/2.8, 35/2, 50/2. A sweet, practical kit for street shooting and some landscapes if you have the dollars to dish out
x-ray
Veteran
thomasw_ said:I recommend:>
ZI and these ZM lenses: 25/2.8, 35/2, 50/2. A sweet, practical kit for street shooting and some landscapes if you have the dollars to dish out
I'm with you 100%. Nothing better at any price. Having 4 systems, Leica, Zeiss, Bessa and nijkon RF there's no question in my mind that the ZI is the superior RF with the brightest, easiest to focus and largest RF/VF. The quality is superb and after recent experiences with leica problems I feel the ZI is equal if not better in construction than the leicas (old bodies pre M6 excluded) . I also have glass from each maker and like the leica glass but love the Zeiss. CV lenses are fantastic too particularly if you need speed like the 35 1.2 and 28 1.9.
My recommendation with out reservation is the ZI with 25 or 21, 35 and 50 Planar. Second choice is sub the 21 0r 25 for the CV Ultron 28 1.9 and or the 35 1.2 Nokton CV if speed is the thing.
The Bessa is a fine little camera but if you have the $$$ go for the ZI.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I owned 2 Bessa's R3a and R3M. They were really great to jumpstart RF for me. But the ZI is so smooth. Iuse it more and enjoy it more. My goal is to get to 25-50-90. I am 33% there.
Ganku_Gorrija
Newbie
WOW!
Thanks all for all your advice
Certainly a few things to think about, but it defo seems like a Bessa vs ZI at the moment. I will look at the older Leicas but I just dont get the same buzz out of the name as the others for some strange reason.
Anyhoo I am gonna sound stupid and ask what is a CV lens?
Thank you all for your help!
Ganku
Thanks all for all your advice
Certainly a few things to think about, but it defo seems like a Bessa vs ZI at the moment. I will look at the older Leicas but I just dont get the same buzz out of the name as the others for some strange reason.
Anyhoo I am gonna sound stupid and ask what is a CV lens?
Thank you all for your help!
Ganku
cmedin
Well-known
CV = Cosina Voigtlander