In Scotland, Parents Unsure They Can Photograph Their Own Kids

paulfish4570 said:
it's just one more step to total socialism, bill. i cannot be convinced otherwise. now, i'm not much of one for the polls, but when it seems every national poll - no matter who conducts it - says most americans don't want obama care, i'm thinking the polls could be correct. november will bear this out, i think. but we will have to wait and see ...
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Paul, the results of any poll depend on the semantics of the question - pollsters know this

regards
CW
 
do you think all polls are written by anti-health-care people? of course not. rasmussen, gallup, all of the big boys show the same thing: majority opposition to obama care. you think kos and huffington post wouldn't produce polls showing the opposite if they could? of course, they would. did pelosi and reid cite a single poll during their health care campaign that showed most american people want their brand of health? no, they didn't, because they couldn't ...
 
Oh Please!

Oh Please!

paulfish4570 said:
oh, He ws/is a socialist, all right. that is why mao, marx, stalin, castro and others of their ilk were/are such big fans. 🙂

Jesus had no political ambition or views whatsoever. He told pilate that very thing - and pilate believed Him. 🙂

Jesus said to give caesar what is caesar's, and to God what is God's. i suppose, based on that, you'd have to say He was a supporter of roman tyranny, or at least ambivalent about it. but that would be out of context, wouldn't it? 🙂

now, as for Jesus and health care, He certainly healed a lot of folks during His 3-year ministry, and granted His apostles healing power during their ministries, and the folks who were healed didn't have to pay a dime. no taxes, no premiums, no co-pay - just faith. 🙂

He's been in the spiritual healing, soul-saving business ever since the resurrection, with the promise of a new body one day for believers. doesn't cost a thing. available to anyone, free of charge. 🙂
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Jesus was a ratbag, idealistic revolutionary who upset the establishment by challenging the status quo and was eliminated by them. The rest is largely a richly embroidered post-event revisionist legend-cum-fable that well meaning but deluded people cling to and promulgate. They are quite sincere in their belief - but they have no proof which is why they get so strident when their fundamental dogma is questioned.

Priests and politicians - a pox on both of them. Sometimes it's hard to tell which one it is you're listening to.
 
Leigh Youdale said:
Jesus was a ratbag, idealistic revolutionary who upset the establishment by challenging the status quo and was eliminated by them. The rest is largely a richly embroidered post-event revisionist legend-cum-fable that well meaning but deluded people cling to and promulgate. They are quite sincere in their belief - but they have no proof which is why they get so strident when their fundamental dogma is questioned.

Priests and politicians - a pox on both of them. Sometimes it's hard to tell which one it is you're listening to.
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What's the old saying? "I will not rest until the last king is strangled with the guts of the last priest". Something like that.

Cheers,

R.
 
paulfish4570 said:
wow, leigh, who's being strident? 🙂
🙂
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Well, maybe not so much strident as provocative - which is how I see your continued use of texts in your signature that have absolutely nothing to do with photography and everything to do with trying to foist your beliefs on others. Still if it makes you feel virtuous ...........
 
paulfish4570 said:
i see it as more socialism.
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As usually defined, socialism involves government ownership of some sector of an economy. What health care providers or insurers have been nationalized by the government?

bill, can you show me one poll where the majority of americans want obama care?
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Here are some from a quick Google search:

First, an article from Newsweek reporting that most Americans don't understand what's in the new law. (No surprise there. I hold that many conservatives do not want to know what's in it and will deliberately maintain their ignorance.) Note the reference to a poll in February indicating that "while a majority of Americans say they oppose Obama's plan, a majority actually support the key features of the legislation...The more people know about the legislation, the more likely they are to support major components of it. When asked about Obama's plan (without being given any details about what the legislation includes), 49 percent opposed it and 40 percent were in favor. But after hearing key features of the legislation described, 48 percent supported the plan and 43 percent remained opposed.

Here's a poll from last year showing 77 percent want a public option.

Here's a Gallup poll from 23 March -- the day after passage in the House -- indicating that 49 percent think the law is a "good thing" and only 40 percent think it is a "bad thing".

Now, as someone has pointed out, polls are a pretty squishy thing. Elections are the only polls that count. Obama and the Democrats campaigned in 2008 on a platform supporting health care reform. (Universal health care has been in the Democrat's platform for years.) You know, Paul, who won that election. Elections have consequences. Millions of people, including myself, voted for Obama and other Democratic candidates because we want universal health care and we want to break the back of the unconscionable and unethical for-profit corporations that, among other sins, hand out bonuses to the employees who cancel the most policies and decline the most doctor-ordered courses of treatment.

We also want to recover from the gross damage done to the nation by conservative culture during the Bush years, and to prevent that brand of conservatism from ever returning to power. But, that's another story.
 
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Leigh Youdale said:
Well, maybe not so much strident as provocative - which is how I see your continued use of texts in your signature that have absolutely nothing to do with photography and everything to do with trying to foist your beliefs on others. Still if it makes you feel virtuous ...........
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As an atheist myself Leigh, i dont see it this way, Paul is not foisting his beliefs on anyone, he is just letting everyone else be aware of his belief, thats ok. We should big enough to accept this by now aye😉
At least he aint using a cliche in his sig. Paul has also responded to all the posts he has made in this thread with calm maturity.
REGARDS
CW
 
Well said CW. And Well said Bill. Love the OT myself. In medicine and in photography and in anything worth doing; and considering the notion of the pool of the insured and the unpredictability of life and the law and its reach, how about this beautiful passage -

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

Ecclesiastes 9:10-11
 
Just for the record, as my veracity has been doubted...
Gumby said:
It is no doubt that you had a bad experience but that simply is not the way hospital emergency rooms work in So Cal, even as far back as 1991.[.......]At the hospital I use you'd be pushed to the front of the line and have had a CT of your noggin within 20 minutes, 19 of which would be paperwork to discern what insurance coverage you may or may not have.
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While apparently I wasn't explicit enough, I rather thought I covered tests (which were conducted) by stating
Emergency did the US version of triage: I was unlikely to die in any way that my estate could sue them over.
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What I could not get was treatment. That's an entirely different animal.

I could have been treated if I'd signed a bunch of paperwork stating that I wasn't insured while knowing that statement was false - no doubt opening myself up to any number of fraud charges (I may have been concussed, but I wasn't stupid). I could also have been treated if my insurance company admitted that I was covered by them - something they were loath to do but (after many hours) eventually did.
Gumby said:
Blame whoever you'd like... but it isn't the doctors, it is more likely the hospital administrators and insurance companies...
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That's exactly who I blame.

Gumby said:
the guys/gals who make sure that the hospital and insurance coverage can exist to provide medical services.
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Only if there's a question about who is insured and who isn't. Living with the dreadful consequences of "socialised medicne" means that question never arises. Treatment is given to the sick and the injured without delays to check whether somebody is covered or not - because everybody is covered. So there's no need for that kind of administrative delay (and substantial overhead). It isn't really that difficult a concept.

Gumby said:
... but what does this have to do with philosophy, photpgraphy, or the philosophy of photograhy anyway?
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Nothing. I was merely responding to an assertion which I found dubious on the basis of personal experience.

...Mike
 
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mfunnell said:
Just for the record, as my veracity has been doubted...
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Mike, sorry about you being so sensitive; hope you recover from that soon! 😀

Re: Australians being considered "uninsured" by American hospitals... that is an interesting point. I know how one insurance company settles claims with another here in the US. I have no idea how an insurance company (or hospital) settles claims with another country.

But I do understand, and I am being totally sincere, how such paperwork would have been viewed by you as offensive. The implication of being a "deadbeat" when you obviously aren't was very unfortunate.

I hope your noggin, arm, wrist, and pride are well now and do not impair your photographic ventures.
 
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