In search of the best (film) P&S as an addition to a DSLR

[solar_sea]

I've been shooting mainly digital as soon as I got involved in photography. I'm really satisfied with my current equipment and I don't think I'll change it anytime soon, but I often feel the need of something small and unobtrusive that I can take anywhere. My SLR (w/batt. grip and a 17-70 zoom) tends to scare people away from the frame, they also tend to get angry if I point it at theirs direction.

I've tried using some rangefinders, they were excellent at image quality but suffered from the same size issues as my slr. (Yashica 35GS, Minolta Hi-Matic 9, Kiev 4) Also, the lack of ael/exposure compensation tends to limit their usefulness.

After some research I ended with those models on my wish-list:

• Leica Minilux
• Minolta TC-1
• Ricoh GRs
• Fujifilm Klasse (first)/S/W
• Nikon 28TI/35TI
• Contax T2/T3
• ? Konica Hexar AF (fully featured, but too large & heavy)

I tend to value AF/preset MF, AEL, exposure compensation, spot metering in this order.

I would appreciate any direct comparison // any comments about them. Thank you for reading this post 🙂

 

[david.elliott]

Dont forget the Nikon 28ti and Contax T series of cameras.

 

[urban_alchemist]

I have both the Ricoh (GR1s) and the Minolta (TC-1). How do they compare? Very favourably, really. Both have sensational lenses, rock-solid build, fantastic controls and great all-round feel. So what do each do better?

Build: The Minolta feels better built - everything happens with a thick 'ker-chunk', and it just feels like a jewel in the hand. This doesn't make the Ricoh bad, just not quite as solid feeling. As a special note: the film-wind of the Minolta is especially tough.

Stealth: Minolta wins here again. The Ricoh is NOISY as it winds on the film.

Lense: I personally prefer the Minolta's Rokkor between f5.6 and f11, but the Ricoh is much faster - f2.8 vs f3.5

Finder: Minolta again. Nothing against the Ricoh, I just find the sliding focus-level a boon, and it tends to be clearer in lower light.

Controls: They're both great, but work very differently. Whilst the Minolta works through a rotational dial in conjunction with a rocker-switch, the Ricoh works on the one-button, one-function principle. Whilst the Ricoh's lense-aperture is set using a rotational dial on the top (with a Program setting), the Minolta's MUST be set manually. No biggy, but slightly inconvenient for that 'quick-shot'.

Anything else of note?

Minolta: Has a dedicated 'spot' AE button. (VERY useful) - and manual-focus. Also has manual film-speed setting (Ricoh GR1v has this, GR1/GR1s doesn't - but DOES have exposure-compensation dial, as does TC-1).

Ricoh: Has 'snap' focus mode - chooses the hyperfocal point for the aperture, so no need to focus.

So, which would I choose? A strange answer this. I use the Ricoh GR1s much more than the TC-1 - simply because Snap-Mode + Neopan 1600 is an awesome night-time combo. BUT, if I had to choose one, it'd probably be the Minolta. It's just such a special little camera, and an absolute joy to use every shot...

Minolta TC-1

Ricoh GR1s

One final thought: have you considered the Olympus XA? OK, so the lense may not be comparable to the above, but it is pretty good, great ergonomics, rough-and-tumble and, crucially, CHEAP!

 

[monochromeimages]

I had a Minilux and never really liked it. My current P&S is a Contax T3 and I am very happy with it. Both produce superb images - nothing to choose between them but the T3 is much neater and you can switch the flash off and it stays off. On the Minilux if you set the flash to off it's on auto again next time you switch the camera on. That drove me mad.

 

[solar_sea]

urban_alchemist - thank you for the detailed in-depth comparison! If I decide to go for the wide angle, the Minolta TC-1 is most likely to be the camera that I'll go look for.

I'm currently a little bit more biased towards fuji's klasse s or the original one. I find the 38mm focal length a bit more universal and it should have a thinner DoF at equal apertures.
Also, the klasse's shade bayonet mount is pretty simple to copy by a metal-skilled person, thus filters could be used easily.
On the other side, both cameras lack a accessory shoe, therefore it will be hard to use a PL filter.

I've already read the TC-1's manual online, now I'm looking for the Klasse's one. I know it's in Japanese, but I think I can figure out the basic functions that I'm interested in.

As a final note for this post, both the Klasse and the TC-1 are equally priced in EBay and I really wonder which one should I get 🙂

 

[urban_alchemist]

urban_alchemist - thank you for the detailed in-depth comparison! If I decide to go for the wide angle, the Minolta TC-1 is most likely to be the camera that I'll go look for.

I'm currently a little bit more biased towards fuji's klasse s or the original one. I find the 38mm focal length a bit more universal and it should have a thinner DoF at equal apertures.
Also, the klasse's shade bayonet mount is pretty simple to copy by a metal-skilled person, thus filters could be used easily.
On the other side, both cameras lack a accessory shoe, therefore it will be hard to use a PL filter.

I've already read the TC-1's manual online, now I'm looking for the Klasse's one. I know it's in Japanese, but I think I can figure out the basic functions that I'm interested in.

As a final note for this post, both the Klasse and the TC-1 are equally priced in EBay and I really wonder which one should I get 🙂

Understood - that's also why I suggested the XA - real 35mm... I like the Fuji Klasse cameras (and their Natura brethren) - would consider one if I already didn't have too many film cameras. I actually saw one in Japan recently and remember thinking it looked very big for a p+s (but that may have been because it was sitting next to some teeny weeny digitals)...

 

[FrankS]

There is a Rollei 35afm camera which is like the Fuji Klassen S. I'll be selling mine soon since buying a Hexar AF.

http://www.photographyreview.com/mfr/rollei/point-and-shoot/PRD_97067_3108crx.aspx

 

[solar_sea]

I tend to avoid the XA for the very same reasons that I've sold my rangefinders - lack of properly implemented exposure compensation, lack of spot metering/manual mode. Also, I've got some pretty big/fat 🙂 fingers - the focusing lever on the XA just doesn't seem right to me.

The other nice 35mm camera that I'm thinking about is the Konica Hexar AF, but it's also the largest of all. It has full PAM settings, ISO override, center-weight/spot metering, exposure compensation as well as manual focusing. It's also quite famous as far as I can tell for it's quietness. The only thing which scares me in it is the weight - 2.5x times more than the Minolta TC-1. (500g, which is lightweight compared to my dslr, but yet..)

 

[GoneSavage]

I can't speak on any of the other cameras, but the Hexar AF is one fantastic machine. It is incredibly quiet and quick to the shot, the auto focus system is deadly accurate, and it is just large enough to fit comfortably in one's hand. I wouldn't let the weight scare you off; while it might seem heavy on paper, when considering the actual size of the camera, it feels rather light. The grip makes it easy to use with one hand when necessary.

This was shot with about 1 second of preparation at a distance of about four feet, while walking. This camera is so quick that people don't have time to notice it!

One more stealth shot.

The Hexar also excels in night photography, where it's smooth shutter release makes shooting at 1/8 of a second a breeze:

The bokeh is smooth, too (in my opinion).

The Hexar also has a killer program mode that lets you input a lowest possible shutter speed and only alters the selected aperture when this speed isn't slow enough. It's a brilliantly fast and effective approach.

 

[AhtoT]

Contax T3

Contax T3

I have Contax T3 and it is very nice small and pocketable P&S. Lens goes 100% into the body when not in use, making the camera complately flat from all sides.

These 2 shots on E100VS. Bokeh is very smooth.

 

[filmfan]

You can't go wrong with any of those... Just pick the one that you would enjoy shooting the most.

 

[fbf]

T3 or hexar AF but for pocket size, t3 for sure. It has all the functions you can possibly need and the lens is fantastic. Of course, that's assuming budget isn't much an issue.

 

[Ben Blacket]

I've been searching for a P&S that suits me as well.
A Yashica T4 Super does the job for now & after seeing the corner falloff in the T3 shot above, I'm impressed with the T4.

I'm after something with aperture priority & more accurate close-up framing.

T3 - no aperture priority wide open (f2.8), so it gets the gong.

35ti has shutter speed or aperture (not both) displayed in viewfinder which is handy.
Also, 35ti has close-up projected framelines.
Does any other compact have these two features?

 

[Ben Blacket]

Oh, & don't forget scale focussing - very handy when you can't pick a good focus point or when shooting through glass.

 

[solar_sea]

I've decided to go for a Minolta TC-1. In the mean time while I'll be waiting for one to appear with a sensible price I'm going to get an Olympus XA, perhaps I'll be able to get used to it.

Once again - thank you all for your opinions and pictures, I really appreciate the whole discussion here 🙂

 

[morback]

T3 - no aperture priority wide open (f2.8), so it gets the gong.

I'm not sure what you mean. I always set mine at 2.8 because I want that Sonnar softness.

T3 is fantastic in fit, built, and image. For "better" you have to give up on pocketability.

 

[AhtoT]

Yep, T3 has aperture priority (A) on all apertures plus P mode with automatic aperture + automatic shutter speed. However, in reality, if light lever is too high for max 1/500, next suitable aperture will be chosen by the camera. That means the real aperture used may be different to the one chosen via dial. That is how I understand it.

 

[craygc]

I guess the entire list represent s a great collection of compact P&S. The other aspect of people posted examples is the level of post processing. This is my selection of the Fujifilm Klasse W that I adore as a compact, and certainly processed - Klasse W

But I am a wide person as a preference...

 

[morback]

Yep, T3 has aperture priority (A) on all apertures plus P mode with automatic aperture + automatic shutter speed. However, in reality, if light lever is too high for max 1/500, next suitable aperture will be chosen by the camera. That means the real aperture used may be different to the one chosen via dial. That is how I understand it.

Actually max shutter speed is higher than 1/500. It can go up to 1/1200. Handy when using fast films. And yes, if 2.8 results in over exposure it will choose the next f-stop that allows proper exposure.

In all honesty, all these cameras are excellent. It's more a question of finding one at the right price.

 

[Gary Sandhu]

I've had/have the above except for the klasse and the cm instead of the minilux: I'd recommend the TC-1 for the above previously noted reasons. Fastest to use, however, is the hexar af but it's too big